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Olivier's xmas twist
22-04-1978, 11:14 PM
:gp:
So yes I dream of regime change, as the only other option would be to do an NQ qnd start praying for a Houlier like siesta; which no matter how"bad I dislike AW now, would be truly an abominable thought for iny real gooner to entertain.

NQ for Arsenal Chairman"tbh.

jelgoon
29-04-2012, 05:07 PM
I know the guy is probably not particularly pleasant and I have got no time for the oligarchs and the way they got their wealth in Russia. However the fact is that the guy, according to the Sunday Times Rich List, is richer than Abromovich and in the top five in the UK. Bearing in mind that we havent won anything for 7 years and are going to be competing with the stinking rich Man City owners next season, I think its mad that this guy is still sidelined. What are we trying to prove? He is buying shares privately and is clearly desperate to have some sort of meaningful input yet the board continue to sideline him. And we continue to win fuck all.

GP
29-04-2012, 05:08 PM
Good.

He can fuck off and hopefully die.

In the sarlacc pit.

jelgoon
29-04-2012, 05:09 PM
Yeh I know, i spelt his name wrong- it was a typo !!!

jelgoon
29-04-2012, 05:10 PM
Good.

He can fuck off and hopefully die.

In the sarlacc pit.

Pathetic reply. Pathetic

GP
29-04-2012, 05:11 PM
Pathetic reply. Pathetic

Not as pathetic as wanting that jabba looking gangster anywhere near our club.

Marc Overmars
29-04-2012, 05:12 PM
Our board is made up of Old Boys. Literally.

They won't want his sort.

jelgoon
29-04-2012, 05:13 PM
Oh right, like the stinking rich owners of clubs across Europe arent gangsters?

Özim
29-04-2012, 05:13 PM
Get rid of PHW and co and bring him in, we might have some money to spend on some decent players at long last then. The current bunch are dinosaurs without a clue on how to run a successful club on the pitch, all they care about is money.

Özim
29-04-2012, 05:14 PM
Pathetic reply. Pathetic
Pretty much, it wouldn't be a bad thing for us to get some investment on the playing side, he has the money and has already stated he thinks we should invest so why not.

People stuck by this board who are basically taking everyone for a ride and don't give a toss what anyone thinks, they got Kroenke who isn't interested in investing (what's the point in him) and backed that...we need a proper investor will to put his money where his mouth is, this guy seems to be the answer IMO.

jelgoon
29-04-2012, 05:15 PM
Look, as I said, I dont like the guy like I dont like any of the Oligarchs. I also dont like the Glazers much or the owners of Man City. But we are competing against these guys. We have one of the richest men in the world who owns a third of our shares who we are totally igonoring. AND WE NEVER WIN ANYTHING

GP
29-04-2012, 05:17 PM
Oh right, like the stinking rich owners of clubs across Europe arent gangsters?

Of course they are.

I don't want any part of that.

Özim
29-04-2012, 05:17 PM
Look, as I said, I dont like the guy like I dont like any of the Oligarchs. I also dont like the Glazers much or the owners of Man City. But we are competing against these guys. We have one of the richest men in the world who owns a third of our shares who we are totally igonoring. AND WE NEVER WIN ANYTHING
Problem is the current board are more interested in lining their own pockets than having a successful team, he has so much money that this wouldn't be an issue, just like it isn't for the Russian down the road (incidentally I haven't seen him disappear into the sunset as many claimed he would do many years ago).

The sooner we get rid of PHW the better, the guy and his cronies are dragging us down.

McNamara That Ghost...
29-04-2012, 05:20 PM
Well it probably isn't going to happen now, not with the threat of FFP (whether it turns out to be real or not is moot). If it ever did, it's not going to be reckless spending, without selling.

Özim
29-04-2012, 05:23 PM
Well it probably isn't going to happen now, not with the threat of FFP (whether it turns out to be real or not is moot). If it ever did, it's not going to be reckless spending, without selling.
I think there will be ways round that, the clubs will get creative and find loopholes...we have missed the boat somewhat but I don't see the merits of keeping the board we have who have not only shown immense greed but also proved they don't give a damn what the fans think or say.

Olivier's xmas twist
29-04-2012, 05:30 PM
I know the guy is probably not particularly pleasant and I have got no time for the oligarchs and the way they got their wealth in Russia. However the fact is that the guy, according to the Sunday Times Rich List, is richer than Abromovich and in the top five in the UK. Bearing in mind that we havent won anything for 7 years and are going to be competing with the stinking rich Man City owners next season, I think its mad that this guy is still sidelined. What are we trying to prove? He is buying shares privately and is clearly desperate to have some sort of meaningful input yet the board continue to sideline him. And we continue to win fuck all.

korenke has money so we don't need the russian but Stan won't put the money in unless he has control of the club thats the problem.

Id not mind the russian if he could assure us he'd have whats best for the club in his intrests but i don't think he does.

The Russian since he has been at the club has had the chance to give us money for transfers etc if he wanted too. But he did not.

Marc Overmars
29-04-2012, 05:32 PM
The Russian since he has been at the club has had the chance to give us money for transfers etc if he wanted too. But he did not.

Eh? He's not going to give us money without a controlling interest in the club.

Özim
29-04-2012, 05:33 PM
korenke has money so we don't need the russian but Stan won't put the money in unless he has control of the club thats the problem.

Id not mind the russian if he could assure us he'd have whats best for the club in his intrests but i don't think he does.

The Russian since he has been at the club has had the chance to give us money for transfers etc if he wanted too. But he did not.
Kroenke is majority shareholder with 62%, if he was going to invest he would have by now, the guy isn't interested he's a business man interested in making money from his investment without pumping money in.

Usmanov isn't going to invest when he has no say over anything, why would he, it would be foolish to.

Özim
29-04-2012, 05:34 PM
Eh? He's not going to give us money without a controlling interest in the club.
Pretty much, why would anyone do so.

Kroenke on the other hand has no excuse.

Olivier's xmas twist
29-04-2012, 05:35 PM
Get rid of PHW and co and bring him in, we might have some money to spend on some decent players at long last then. The current bunch are dinosaurs without a clue on how to run a successful club on the pitch, all they care about is money.

No Just get rid of PHW and co and let stan run the club his way with his rules.

Olivier's xmas twist
29-04-2012, 05:38 PM
Eh? He's not going to give us money without a controlling interest in the club.


Thats why i said if he wanted too. I suppose he'd only do that if he knew he'd make a return on his investment.

Özim
29-04-2012, 05:38 PM
No Just get rid of PHW and co and let stan run the club his way with his rules.
He knows nothing about football, he controls the club as he has 62%, fact is he's not interested in getting involved or putting money in. There's a good reason PHW and co wanted him on board.

Marc Overmars
29-04-2012, 05:40 PM
Thats why i said if he wanted too. I suppose he'd only do that if he knew he'd make a return on his investment.

No one would just hand over 50m and say do whatever you want with it and I'll keep my nose out. Makes no business sense.

Olivier's xmas twist
29-04-2012, 05:40 PM
Kroenke is majority shareholder with 62%, if he was going to invest he would have by now, the guy isn't interested he's a business man interested in making money from his investment without pumping money in.

Usmanov isn't going to invest when he has no say over anything, why would he, it would be foolish to.


Pretty much, why would
anyone do so.


Kroenke on the other hand has no excuse.

Well no Stan has already said he won't invest in the team etc till he has full controll and why should he just because he only the most shares means nout.

he'd want to know he had full controll before he made such commitments.

Olivier's xmas twist
29-04-2012, 05:41 PM
No one would just hand over 50m and say do whatever you want with it and I'll keep my nose out. Makes no business sense.

Thats why i said if he wanted too. not saying he would or should.

McNamara That Ghost...
29-04-2012, 05:42 PM
I think there will be ways round that, the clubs will get creative and find loopholes...we have missed the boat somewhat but I don't see the merits of keeping the board we have who have not only shown immense greed but also proved they don't give a damn what the fans think or say.

I doubt it, certainly not in our case. It'd be fairly obvious why we're suddenly posting losses! If we could get rid of a lot of the dross then it would free things up but how likely is that?

Other clubs like Citeh strangely are ok because they only need to show they're actually working their way to at least breaking even - look at Chelsea, their losses are still massive but they're smaller year-on-year; in our case we're a lot more hamstrung.

Olivier's xmas twist
29-04-2012, 05:43 PM
He knows nothing about football, he controls the club as he has 62%, fact is he's not interested in getting involved or putting money in. There's a good reason PHW and co wanted him on board.

Lets not say its just the board wanted him majority of the fans did too and did the AST think he was the better option and i think they still do, None of the fans wanted the russian in as he seemed trustworthy.

IMO untill this thing is sorted this club will be a mess. Both don't want to sell their shares and neither will back down.

Xhaka Can’t
29-04-2012, 05:43 PM
Oh right, like the stinking rich owners of clubs across Europe arent gangsters?

Many are.

And they can fuck-off as well.

Xhaka Can’t
29-04-2012, 05:45 PM
Get rid of PHW and co and bring him in, we might have some money to spend on some decent players at long last then. The current bunch are dinosaurs without a clue on how to run a successful club on the pitch, all they care about is money.

No.

We won't have the money - the oligarch will have the money and we'll just be passengers in an oligarch dick measuring competition.

Özim
29-04-2012, 05:45 PM
Lets not say its just the board wanted him majority of the fans did too and did the AST think he was the better option and i think they still do, None of the fans wanted the russian in as he seemed trustworthy.

IMO untill this thing is sorted this club will be a mess. Both don't want to sell their shares and neither will back down.
:lol: The board don't give a toss what the fans think.

Joker
29-04-2012, 05:46 PM
Given the way football's going, there's no point trying to assume the moral highground and keep Usmanov out. I'm not a fan of the oligarch's either, but we have a choice of either stagnation or accepting Usmanov and his investment, so that we can return to challenging for trophies again. In any case, I don't think our Old Etonian board members or Kroenke are any better than Usmanov tbh. They don't have any interest in winning trophies, surely seeing a return on their investment.

Olivier's xmas twist
29-04-2012, 05:47 PM
No.

We won't have the money - the oligarch will have the money and we'll just be passengers in an oligarch dick measuring competition.

Pretty Much.

Özim
29-04-2012, 05:47 PM
No.

We won't have the money - the oligarch will have the money and we'll just be passengers in an oligarch dick measuring competition.
Well we don't have the money now either, the club is owned by a number of people..there's not a huge difference. At least this guy is willing to put his money where his mouth is, Kroenke isn't and I'm sick of having a board who won't invest, but also take the fans money and don't give a sh*t what they think.

At least this guy would be putting something in and trying to make us successful again.

Olivier's xmas twist
29-04-2012, 05:48 PM
:lol: The board don't give a toss what the fans think.

No board does tbh and rightly so.

Olivier's xmas twist
29-04-2012, 05:50 PM
Well we don't have the money now either, the club is owned by a number of people..there's not a huge difference. At least this guy is willing to put his money where his mouth is, Kroenke isn't and I'm sick of having a board who won't invest, but also take the fans money and don't give a sh*t what they think.
At least this guy would be putting something in and trying to make us successful again.

Thats down to the fans they are not forced to give thier money of they don't like this regime we all know what the board is about but fans still make that choice because they love this team.

They have the choice to stopp paying if they want too.

Özim
29-04-2012, 05:50 PM
Given the way football's going, there's no point trying to assume the moral highground and keep Usmanov out. I'm not a fan of the oligarch's either, but we have a choice of either stagnation or accepting Usmanov and his investment, so that we can return to challenging for trophies again. In any case, I don't think our Old Etonian board members or Kroenke are any better than Usmanov tbh. They don't have any interest in winning trophies, surely seeing a return on their investment.
I agree, I'm not a fan of Oligarch money either, our board take the p*ss though and are just in it for what they can get....what do the fans get out of this? Better to have an owner who gives something to the fans in terms of signings than a board who don't and couldn't give a toss what they think.

Özim
29-04-2012, 05:50 PM
No board does tbh and rightly so.
That's rubbish.

Özim
29-04-2012, 05:51 PM
Thats down to the fans they are not forced to give thier money of they don't like this regime we all know what the board is about but fans still make that choice because they love this team.

They have the choice to stopp paying if they want too.
It's not that simple is it, clearly Arsenal fans won't do that, fact is our board treat the fans like dirt....it's sad that people just accept it.

Xhaka Can’t
29-04-2012, 05:53 PM
Well we don't have the money now either, the club is owned by a number of people..there's not a huge difference. At least this guy is willing to put his money where his mouth is, Kroenke isn't and I'm sick of having a board who won't invest, but also take the fans money and don't give a sh*t what they think.

At least this guy would be putting something in and trying to make us successful again.

The part in bold - I agree with entirely. Despite the presence of the oligarchs, this Club could have - in fact should have had two nailed on title wins if it had invested it's resources that it generated through the fans on the playing side. That this did not happen is pretty damning on the Board and on Wenger.

To win those titles, we did not need Usmanov's money - and I don't believe we ever will need his money. What we need is an owner and a Board who are willing to maximise use of the resources the Club generates without a need for financial doping.

Olivier's xmas twist
29-04-2012, 05:57 PM
It's not that simple is it, clearly Arsenal fans won't do that, fact is our board treat the fans like dirt....it's sad that people just accept it.

Yeah you have a point the way they speak to people well PHW is wrong, partly why i cancelled ny red membership cause i saw the way the club was going.

Look at those fans who pay for season tickets and don't turn up for games these are the types who let the board get away with it.

But i think this is where fans need to stop themselves been treated by mugs by cancelling tickets etc.

but they won't.

Syn
29-04-2012, 06:10 PM
Before we think we need an injection of cash, it'd be nice to know whether we're actually making the most of the cash we have. We've been left in the dark and I don't think anyone - apart from Wenger and the board - knows exactly what's going on.

Olivier's xmas twist
29-04-2012, 06:16 PM
The part in bold - I agree with entirely. Despite the presence of the oligarchs, this Club could have - in fact should have had two nailed on title wins if it had invested it's resources that it generated through the fans on the playing side. That this did not happen is pretty damning on the Board and on Wenger.

To win those titles, we did not need Usmanov's money - and I don't believe we ever will need his money. What we need is an owner and a Board who are willing to maximise use of the resources the Club generates without a need for financial doping.

Agree with all your post but the bit in Bold mostly, we should not get somone on Board because we feel he will give us loads of cash to Spend and over spend on players.

Lets get someone in who we feel will give us the best chance to rival City and Utd and Chavs.

But i do think Oldman Hillwood needs to take a hike and not be on this seat till the day he dies.

Kano
29-04-2012, 06:16 PM
it's sad that people just accept it.

how do they do that

Niall_Quinn
29-04-2012, 06:43 PM
Kroenke is majority shareholder with 62%, if he was going to invest he would have by now, the guy isn't interested he's a business man interested in making money from his investment without pumping money in.

Usmanov isn't going to invest when he has no say over anything, why would he, it would be foolish to.

Agree with this. The last bunch of shareholders did spectacularly well (at the fans' and the club's expense). They are hateful vermin. But they didn't manage to squeeze every last penny out. There's still a lot of profit to be made from this club, especially with the restructuring of sponsorship deals. Stan should be able to clear a hefty profit within the next few years and then I guess he'll sell to the Russian. Whether Usmanov decides to invest at that point or whether he thinks there's room for a third scalping who can say? But he won't be putting his money in just to see Kroenke extract it on the other end. If we finish 3rd this year it will be great but also awful as it vindicates the business plan of these rat bastards. The best we can hope for short term is they all go on a corporate jolly and the plane crashes.

Cripps_orig
29-04-2012, 06:56 PM
Should take us over fully

Unai Tea
29-04-2012, 09:42 PM
Agree with this. The last bunch of shareholders did spectacularly well (at the fans' and the club's expense). They are hateful vermin. But they didn't manage to squeeze every last penny out. There's still a lot of profit to be made from this club, especially with the restructuring of sponsorship deals. Stan should be able to clear a hefty profit within the next few years and then I guess he'll sell to the Russian. Whether Usmanov decides to invest at that point or whether he thinks there's room for a third scalping who can say? But he won't be putting his money in just to see Kroenke extract it on the other end. If we finish 3rd this year it will be great but also awful as it vindicates the business plan of these rat bastards. The best we can hope for short term is they all go on a corporate jolly and the plane crashes.

How can Kroenke withdraw money from the club other than through share dividends? And if he's taking profits through share dividends then surely the Usmanov gets exactly the same cut but in proportion to his shareholding? Moreover, the argument cuts both ways - why would silent stan want to invest heavily into the club when 38% of the profits go to some fat russian? Perhaps the impasse with the shareholding is the root of the limited/non-existent level of external investment into the team?

I would also argue that before we throw external funds at our squad issues we should cut the dross and re-invest organic profits wisely. If we still can't compete, which I doubt, then we should be looking for external investment.

Niall_Quinn
29-04-2012, 10:56 PM
How can Kroenke withdraw money from the club other than through share dividends? And if he's taking profits through share dividends then surely the Usmanov gets exactly the same cut but in proportion to his shareholding? Moreover, the argument cuts both ways - why would silent stan want to invest heavily into the club when 38% of the profits go to some fat russian? Perhaps the impasse with the shareholding is the root of the limited/non-existent level of external investment into the team?

I would also argue that before we throw external funds at our squad issues we should cut the dross and re-invest organic profits wisely. If we still can't compete, which I doubt, then we should be looking for external investment.

He can just do it the way the last lot did it, by inflating the share price. Usmanov has already shown a willingness to pay over the odds.

cricketsi
30-04-2012, 03:04 AM
Get rid of PHW and co and bring him in, we might have some money to spend on some decent players at long last then. The current bunch are dinosaurs without a clue on how to run a successful club on the pitch, all they care about is money.

I'd rather these people who apparently have no clue how to run a successful club on the pitch continue to do it their way than Man City's way, for example. It seems you'd prefer that throwing money around approach, but to my mind that is equally clueless and far more reckless.

Power n Glory
30-04-2012, 08:01 AM
Before we think we need an injection of cash, it'd be nice to know whether we're actually making the most of the cash we have. We've been left in the dark and I don't think anyone - apart from Wenger and the board - knows exactly what's going on.

Agree with this point. The wage structure needs sorting out. It's a huge drain.

Özim
30-04-2012, 08:34 AM
I'd rather these people who apparently have no clue how to run a successful club on the pitch continue to do it their way than Man City's way, for example. It seems you'd prefer that throwing money around approach, but to my mind that is equally clueless and far more reckless.
You'd rather be run by a bunch of people who couldn't give a sh*t about anything but money and laugh off the fans concerns whilst not hesitating to blame fans at the 1st opportunity?

These were PHW's comments when Dein bought shares in Arsenal in the 80's:


At the time of Dein's purchase of the shares in Arsenal back in 1983, Peter Hill Wood Arsenal's Chairman described Dein as "crazy" to invest his money in the club stating that "to all intents and purposes it's dead money".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Dein

Calling investment into AFC as dead money, nice guy indeed.

LDG
30-04-2012, 09:09 AM
You'd rather be run by a bunch of people who couldn't give a sh*t about anything but money and laugh off the fans concerns whilst not hesitating to blame fans at the 1st opportunity?

These were PHW's comments when Dein bought shares in Arsenal in the 80's:



Calling investment into AFC as dead money, nice guy indeed.

Do you really think that oil rich billionnaires, and Arabs really give two fucks about the clubs they toy around with? Really??

Who do you think cares more about their clubs?

Mr Hillwood, who's family have been running Arsenal for decades?

Or some billionnaire who doesn't give a fuck about football.

They're all ****s. Distuigishing between any of them is a load of rubbish.

Flavs
30-04-2012, 09:16 AM
Prince Al Shabib Halmanzazi, who has 50 brides.

That's totally inappropriate

LDG
30-04-2012, 09:27 AM
That's totally inappropriate

Much like your face....though I have changed it. Apologies for any offence.

Joker
30-04-2012, 09:29 AM
I don't see why "throwing money around" is used in a derogatory sense. It's as if the aim of football is to do the best you can by not spending money. Well wrong, if we can get an individual who is willing to invest in the club and isn't dodgy (like Sinawatra at City for example) we should at least consider it rather than dismissing it out of hand.

And I still don't see the big issue with City's owners. Their actions so far have been sensible. They gave Hughes time to succeed, realised he wasn't good enough and got Mancini in. They seem to stay out of the football side of things, and from what I know haven't yet decided to fleece the fans with price rises. I know they are Arab and that immediately brings the stereotype of the "more money than sense" oil sheikh, but if we judge them by their actions, you can't really complain. I'd much rather them own the club than the Old Etonians who clearly hold the little people (i.e. the fans) in contempt.

LDG
30-04-2012, 09:39 AM
I don't see why "throwing money around" is used in a derogatory sense. It's as if the aim of football is to do the best you can by not spending money. Well wrong, if we can get an individual who is willing to invest in the club and isn't dodgy (like Sinawatra at City for example) we should at least consider it rather than dismissing it out of hand.

And I still don't see the big issue with City's owners. Their actions so far have been sensible. They gave Hughes time to succeed, realised he wasn't good enough and got Mancini in. They seem to stay out of the football side of things, and from what I know haven't yet decided to fleece the fans with price rises. I know they are Arab and that immediately brings the stereotype of the "more money than sense" oil sheikh, but if we judge them by their actions, you can't really complain. I'd much rather them own the club than the Old Etonians who clearly hold the little people (i.e. the fans) in contempt.


Have you ever thought where these billionnaires get all their money? You can be sure as shit it is through dumping on the little guy in a far worse way than the Arsenal Board charging us £5.00 for a coke.

They're not angels, and it pisses me off the way we don't push the boat out a bit more than we have been....but to make these rich owners out to be better than the "old etonians" is as short-sighted as it comes.

cricketsi
30-04-2012, 09:46 AM
I don't see why "throwing money around" is used in a derogatory sense. It's as if the aim of football is to do the best you can by not spending money. Well wrong, if we can get an individual who is willing to invest in the club and isn't dodgy (like Sinawatra at City for example) we should at least consider it rather than dismissing it out of hand.

And I still don't see the big issue with City's owners. Their actions so far have been sensible. They gave Hughes time to succeed, realised he wasn't good enough and got Mancini in. They seem to stay out of the football side of things, and from what I know haven't yet decided to fleece the fans with price rises. I know they are Arab and that immediately brings the stereotype of the "more money than sense" oil sheikh, but if we judge them by their actions, you can't really complain. I'd much rather them own the club than the Old Etonians who clearly hold the little people (i.e. the fans) in contempt.

Their actions have not been sensible. They have spent hundreds of millions (or are we into billions yet?) for slow gains, not even domination. That's not sensible, that's utterly ridiculous save for the fact they have even more utterly ridiculous bank reserves. It's not good football club custodianship no matter how greedily you may want to drool over trophies.

Özim
30-04-2012, 09:57 AM
Do you really think that oil rich billionnaires, and Arabs really give two fucks about the clubs they toy around with? Really??

Who do you think cares more about their clubs?

Mr Hillwood, who's family have been running Arsenal for decades?

Or some billionnaire who doesn't give a fuck about football.

They're all ****s. Distuigishing between any of them is a load of rubbish.
Abrahmovic seems to care about it to some degree, he wants to win and has pumped his own money into it and seems to get pleasure from watching them succeed, if you like football and you own a football club then yes you will care.

Hillwood doesn't give a toss, if he did he wouldn't treat the fans with such contempt, his comments when Dein bought it sum him up really, he's only interested in the value of his sharers or else he wouldn't be telling us 4th is a great achievement and settling for that etc etc

I think both aren't great unless they're fans, however the current board are just moneymen who don't give a damn about football or the fans and that bugs me a lot.

Kano
30-04-2012, 10:16 AM
You'd rather be run by a bunch of people who couldn't give a sh*t about anything but money and laugh off the fans concerns whilst not hesitating to blame fans at the 1st opportunity?

These were PHW's comments when Dein bought shares in Arsenal in the 80's:



Calling investment into AFC as dead money, nice guy indeed.

thankfully the bbc give this more context than your selective quote

"Football was struggling with a poor image, a seemingly unshakable hooligan element and inadequate stadia.

Then-chairman Peter Hill-Wood said at the time: "Some rich men like to buy fast cars, yachts or racehorses.

"But David is more interested in Arsenal. I'm delighted he is - but I still think he's crazy. To all intents and purposes, it's dead money.' "

Özim
30-04-2012, 10:20 AM
thankfully the bbc give this more context than your selective quote

"Football was struggling with a poor image, a seemingly unshakable hooligan element and inadequate stadia.

Then-chairman Peter Hill-Wood said at the time: "Some rich men like to buy fast cars, yachts or racehorses.

"But David is more interested in Arsenal. I'm delighted he is - but I still think he's crazy. To all intents and purposes, it's dead money.' "
Makes me laugh really, if PHW cared about Arsenal he certainly wouldn't treat it's bread and butter (the fans) in the insulting way he does. He's a fat cat with a cigar in his mouth who doesn't have a clue about the realities of modern day football.

Say what you like about him but David Dein cared about the club, PHW made sure he along with a few others were tossed out on their ear because they wouldn't toe the line, that's why we are where we are.

You can see when someone really cares about a club and PHW in my opinion doesn't, it's a business to him.

Letters
30-04-2012, 10:23 AM
Get rid of PHW and co and bring him in, we might have some money to spend on some decent players at long last then. The current bunch are dinosaurs without a clue on how to run a successful club on the pitch, all they care about is money.
Yeah, that's why we're going down :rolleyes:

Kano
30-04-2012, 10:24 AM
Makes me laugh really, if PHW cared about Arsenal he certainly wouldn't treat it's bread and butter (the fans) in the insulting way he does. He's a fat cat with a cigar in his mouth who doesn't have a clue about the realities of modern day football.

Say what you like about him but David Dein cared about the club, PHW made sure he along with a few others were tossed out on their ear because they wouldn't toe the line, that's why we are where we are.

You can see when someone really cares about a club and PHW in my opinion doesn't, it's a business to him.
glad we cleared that quote hope then.

who initiated the selling of the shares to someone outside of the traditional board - wasn't that the starting point for the current position we are in?

Flavs
30-04-2012, 10:25 AM
Can i just check, is "Itsme" Zimm?

Özim
30-04-2012, 10:27 AM
glad we cleared that quote hope then.

who initiated the selling of the shares to someone outside of the traditional board - wasn't that the starting point for the current position we are in?
Does it matter, I don't necessarily see it as a bad thing considering anyway.

Letters
30-04-2012, 10:29 AM
Can i just check, is "Itsme" Zimm?
Does it show?

Kano
30-04-2012, 10:29 AM
Does it matter, I don't necessarily see it as a bad thing considering anyway.

i think it matters who initiated the current stagnant position we're in where we do not seem to be progressing as a football team.

i am confused now. so you don't see the current situation as a bad thing? the situation that PHW and co oversee?

Özim
30-04-2012, 10:30 AM
Yeah, that's why we're going down :rolleyes:
Whats that got to do with anything?

We're not a successful club per say, 7 years without a tin pot trophy suggests we're not, now sure you'll say we've been top 4 for x years etc...but it depends whether you see that as success, I get no pleasure from coming 3rd/4th and getting into the CL when we all know every year we're making up the numbers.

Flavs
30-04-2012, 10:30 AM
Does it show?

Ah that explains a lot then. Thanks

Özim
30-04-2012, 10:32 AM
i think it matters who initiated the current stagnant position we're in where we do not seem to be progressing as a football team.

i am confused now. so you don't see the current situation as a bad thing? the situation that PHW and co oversee?
The current stagnant position is down to the board not willing to move with the times, they don't want to invest and see 4th place as their championship, there's no real ambition to challenge the best in the world or become the best, they've taken the defeatist stance and accepted we can't so why bother.

Dein was much more forward thinking and wanted the club to compete with the best, losing him was a bad thing for the club IMO.

Letters
30-04-2012, 10:32 AM
Whats that got to do with anything?
Well. You think our board and manager all all bumbling idiots
The genuis 'Arry has assembled a squad which is much better than ours (you said ours doesn't even compare to theirs earlier in the season).
And here we are in 3rd below 2 sides who have bigger resources and one of whom has the best manager around.
We should be picking up a trophy or two but do you really think a load of incompetents could run a team and finish this high up every year? Really?

Kano
30-04-2012, 10:38 AM
The current stagnant position is down to the board not willing to move with the times, they don't want to invest and see 4th place as their championship, there's no real ambition to challenge the best in the world or become the best, they've taken the defeatist stance and accepted we can't so why bother.

Dein was much more forward thinking and wanted the club to compete with the best, losing him was a bad thing for the club IMO.
the club is now owned in the majority by an investor that was introduced to the club by david dein - do you not think he had a duty to conduct a comprehensive due diligence to understand what this guys vision and intention was?

of course, now he is in the with board and they seem to share a similar point of view. you say it doesn't matter who introduced this man to the club, yet you still think it is relevant to pick up on a selective quote from wiki that is almost 20 years old - do you not see the contradiction there?

i don't see dein as the devil as he done some good things for the club, much in the same way i view phw and co. they have all done positive and negatives things, much like any director would as you can't please everyone all of the time.

yet dein brought along kroenke who was at first rejected by the board 'we don't want his sort' being the classic quote by phw. people can make mistakes and change judgements, i'm sure you've done the same in your lifetime, the only difference is that your statements are not kept on national record.

dein thought he was doing the right thing bringing this guy in and ultimately it hasn't worked out, so he didn't do enough ground work. he fucked up. he then jumped into bed with the russian guy and sold his shares to him at a premium. fair enough, business is business. but do you think that shows any more loyalty or 'love' to the club than you assume phw lacks?

Letters
30-04-2012, 11:06 AM
The current stagnant position is down to the board not willing to move with the times, they don't want to invest and see 4th place as their championship, there's no real ambition to challenge the best in the world or become the best, they've taken the defeatist stance and accepted we can't so why bother.

Dein was much more forward thinking and wanted the club to compete with the best, losing him was a bad thing for the club IMO.
I agree with some of this but realistically how can we compete with the Manchester Clubs? Both have bigger resources than us, one has a better manager, neither has a stadium debt to pay off. I do think we could be doing more and I know you won't admit this but with the lack of investment Wenger's done pretty well to get us 3rd (he's done poorly in other ways of course).

Marc Overmars
30-04-2012, 11:37 AM
We can't compete with them in the transfer market but on the pitch I don't see why we can't match them. I've heard many people on here brag about us accumulating the same amount of points as them after we recovered from our poor start (although that's probably not true anymore because results have slipped), but still, it shows the level of consistency required is one we are capable of bringing to the table.

We've had one too many brain farts this season and these are the type of issues that can be resovolved by the manager in-house.

If anything, it's actually a compliment to Wenger that his detractors feel the team is capable of much better, because he's the one who gets them to play above expectation anyway.

Joker
30-04-2012, 06:13 PM
Usmanov is the 2nd wealthiest man in the UK:

http://www.newstatesman.com/business/business/2012/04/pictures-sunday-times-rich-list-top-10

GP
30-04-2012, 06:24 PM
Usmanov is the 2nd wealthiest man in the UK:

http://www.newstatesman.com/business/business/2012/04/pictures-sunday-times-rich-list-top-10

Then he'll have a grand funeral when he eats shit and dies.

Cripps_orig
30-04-2012, 06:31 PM
Usmanov is the 2nd wealthiest man in the UK:

http://www.newstatesman.com/business/business/2012/04/pictures-sunday-times-rich-list-top-10Why the fuck didnt the board sell to him?

Niall_Quinn
30-04-2012, 06:32 PM
Why the fuck didnt the board sell to him?

They don't want his sort here.

Yet.

jelgoon
30-04-2012, 06:59 PM
The only reason the board sidelined him is because he was close to Dein ( who was chari of his company). The board fell out with Dein and didnt want Dein to worm his way back in and dump them as directors. I dont think the board give a shit about his background.

Coney
30-04-2012, 07:00 PM
I do and I don't want him here. Hope he sells up and buys some other club.

Olivier's xmas twist
30-04-2012, 07:03 PM
Then he'll have a grand funeral when he eats shit and dies.lol


Why the fuck didnt the board sell to him?

Because they wanted Deins other rich man.

In guessing he did not offer alot for the boards shares like the russian did.

Cripps_orig
30-04-2012, 07:10 PM
Kroenke has flopped big time as we all knew he would

Usmanov is the future

Power n Glory
30-04-2012, 07:25 PM
Not so sure about this guy taking over but I wouldn't complain if he did to be honest. I just think it's a little extreme to call for a takeover when our problem has little to do with money.

Cripps_orig
30-04-2012, 07:27 PM
Our problem is everything to do with our board being a bit shit though

Power n Glory
30-04-2012, 08:10 PM
They're part of the complacency problem and have allowed Wenger's philosophy on how a club should be run to take too much precedent, but when you see how we suffer tactically each season and the mental fragility of his teams...that's down to the coaching. Even if he had millions to spend, I doubt he'd be able to cope with the sort of egos and problems those millions come with. He doesn't command respect and discipline from his players and that's we always fall short. 7 years and no silverware is a bad record. If he can't keep players like Nasri, Hleb and Ade in check, how would he handle even bigger star players that think they have nothing to prove or want stupid wages. I don't think he'd be able to handle them.

Besides the man management and movtiation issues, tactically there is a lot to be desired.

fakeyank
30-04-2012, 08:13 PM
Not so sure about this guy taking over but I wouldn't complain if he did to be honest. I just think it's a little extreme to call for a takeover when our problem has little to do with money.

:gp:

Olivier's xmas twist
30-04-2012, 09:20 PM
Kroenke has flopped big time as we all knew he would

Usmanov is the future

Thats some of the fans views not the boards and as long as these guys are on the board he won't be anywhere near our club.

I just can see Stan selling to the Russain tbh.

Niall_Quinn
30-04-2012, 09:22 PM
Thats some of the fans views not the boards and as long as these guys are on the board he won't be anywhere near our club.

I just can see Stan selling to the Russain tbh.

Course he will, those two have the whole thing locked up. One fat cat at the milk dish, another fatter cat behind. Easy money.

Dennis Bendtner
30-04-2012, 09:31 PM
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01399/alisher-usmanov_1399759c.jpg

Olivier's xmas twist
30-04-2012, 09:35 PM
Course he will, those two have the whole thing locked up. One fat cat at the milk dish, another fatter cat behind. Easy money.

So in a few years when he has made all his profits he'll sell up, i see.

Niall_Quinn
30-04-2012, 10:49 PM
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01399/alisher-usmanov_1399759c.jpg

Jabba. Me so no like him.

GP
30-04-2012, 10:55 PM
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01399/alisher-usmanov_1399759c.jpg

Rasha Naba Doe-ah Gola Wookiee Nipple Pinchy

Letters
01-05-2012, 06:47 AM
Our problem is everything to do with our board being a bit shit though
You agree it's not Wenger then. Good, good.

21_GOONER_SALUTE
01-05-2012, 10:43 AM
Not so sure about this guy taking over but I wouldn't complain if he did to be honest. I just think it's a little extreme to call for a takeover when our problem has little to do with money.
:gp:
I can't speak for anyone else but the main reason I'd want regime change is actually to end this manger's stranglehold on the club.

A bit extreme I agree, but every day that looks more and more like the only way we are going to get out of our current servitudal arrangement to his "vision".

So yes I dream of regime change, as the only other option would be to do an NQ and start praying for a Houlier like siesta; which no matter how bad I dislike AW now, would be truly an abominable thought for any real gooner to entertain.

Cripps_orig
01-05-2012, 10:44 AM
You agree it's not Wenger then. Good, good.The board are the ones who can get rid of Wenger but dont do so

Niall_Quinn
01-05-2012, 12:52 PM
[QUOTE=21_GOONER_SALUTE;131992]:gp:
I can't speak for anyone else but the main reason I'd want regime change is actually to end this$manger's stranglehold on the club.

A bit extreme I agree, but every day that looks more and more like the only way we are going to get out of our current servitudal arrangement to his "vision".

So yes I dream nf regimg change, as the only other option would be to do an NQ and start praying for a Houlier like siesta; which no ma|ter how bad I dislike AW now, would be truly an abominable thought for any real gooner to entertain.[/QWOTE]

JEh? I don't wish harm on Wenger, are you serious? When did I sa{ that?
*
The board, of course, obviously. Wenger, no.

Niall_Quinn
01-05-2012, 01:19 PM
What makes you think Usmanov is the man to stand up to AW not just come in to make a profit like stan?

Because Usmanov got rich by being a very nice man and helping people, especially little old ladies who want to cross the road.

jelgoon
01-05-2012, 01:28 PM
I dont know whether Usmanov would stand up to Wenger or not ( possibly he wouldnt if Wenger's mate Dein was Chair) but we do need a change of attitude from the board. As for Usmanov, he is worth billions more than Kroenke, doesnt own several other sports teams like Kroenke and probably wants to get a foothold in English football for the same political reasons as Abromovich. Of course as NQ says he didnt get rich by being very nice to people but who the fuck ever became a billionaire without shafting a lot of people along the way?


What makes you think Usmanov is the man to stand up to AW not just come in to make a profit like stan?

Olivier's xmas twist
01-05-2012, 02:23 PM
I dont know whether Usmanov would stand up to Wenger or not ( possibly he wouldnt if Wenger's mate Dein was Chair) but we do need a change of attitude from the board. As for Usmanov, he is worth billions more than Kroenke, doesnt own several other sports teams like Kroenke and probably wants to get a foothold in English football for the same political reasons as Abromovich. Of course as NQ says he didnt get rich by being very nice to people but who the fuck ever became a billionaire without shafting a lot of people along the way?

Cheers just asked cause i did not know alot about the russian or what he was about. But i knew a bit about Stan and how his wife is much richer then him.

Master Splinter
01-05-2012, 02:23 PM
But i knew a bit about Stan and how his wife is much richer then him.

Stan :haha:.

Olivier's xmas twist
01-05-2012, 02:24 PM
Because Usmanov got rich by being a very nice man and helping people, especially little old ladies who want to cross the road.

The rat bastard lol. Nah i just did not know about the man have never took an interest in him.

Xhaka Can’t
01-05-2012, 05:51 PM
Totally agree. We desperately need a board that stands up to Wenger. The Hill Wood comments two weeks ago were nauseating - we dont need our chairman to tell us that Wenger has done a brilliant job this season and should stay way beyond 2014. We need him to say that not winning anything ( or more importantly even coming close) for the seventh year running and losing more than a quarter of our league matches is simply not good enough.

How much more money do you think they should demand he makes them after they've summoned up the courage to stand up to him?

Özim
01-05-2012, 07:51 PM
What makes you think Usmanov is the man to stand up to AW not just come in to make a profit like stan?
He's stinking rich and hasn't he said he thinks we should spend and that he'd be willing to?

When you're that rich a few hundred million here and there is pocket change, just ask Abrahmovic!

Özim
01-05-2012, 07:52 PM
:gp:
I can't speak for anyone else but the main reason I'd want regime change is actually to end this manger's stranglehold on the club.

A bit extreme I agree, but every day that looks more and more like the only way we are going to get out of our current servitudal arrangement to his "vision".

So yes I dream of regime change, as the only other option would be to do an NQ and start praying for a Houlier like siesta; which no matter how bad I dislike AW now, would be truly an abominable thought for any real gooner to entertain.
I'm with you, we do have money but the current lot just want to line their pockets, won't have a bad word said about the manager and praise him constantly for what is in effect failure for a club of our size.

Who the f*ck wants to hear how well Wenger is doing when he's gone 7 seasons without so much as a tin pot trophy to his name, smaller clubs have picked up trophies in that time!

Xhaka Can’t
01-05-2012, 07:57 PM
He's stinking rich and hasn't he said he thinks we should spend and that he'd be willing to?

When you're that rich a few hundred million here and there is pocket change, just ask Abrahmovic!

We don't need anyone stinking rich - we just need someone to make full use of the resources the Club itself generates. Had we done that, we would have won a minimum of two titles over the past seven years.

Calling for some rich twat to measure his dick against a couple of other rich twats is totally wrong. I want to follow Arsenal and not some rich oligarch twat's penis extension. We can win and should win without that.

Özim
01-05-2012, 08:07 PM
We don't need anyone stinking rich - we just need someone to make full use of the resources the Club itself generates. Had we done that, we would have won a minimum of two titles over the past seven years.

Calling for some rich twat to measure his dick against a couple of other rich twats is totally wrong. I want to follow Arsenal and not some rich oligarch twat's penis extension. We can win and should win without that.
My post above clear this up I think but in addition why can't someone rich also be a fan and thus want to invest and win, I don't think you'll find a Blackburn, Chelsea or Man City fan who isn't happy to have seen rich benefactors come in at the end of the day, as long as they don't damage the club I don't really see a problem.

Abrahmovic came in and despite many people's doubts stuck around, where would Chelsea actually be without him?

Olivier's xmas twist
01-05-2012, 08:15 PM
We don't need anyone stinking rich - we just need someone to make full use of the resources the Club itself generates. Had we done that, we would have won a minimum of two titles over the past seven years.

Calling for some rich twat to measure his dick against a couple of other rich twats is totally wrong. I want to follow Arsenal and not some rich oligarch twat's penis extension. We can win and should win without that.

Pretty much, But this is the problem that pride of winning things without the help of the Billionaire, seems to be dissapering quick.

Seems Some fans (from every team) will do and anything even sell their soles in exchange for tophies.

We should not want the russian because he will chuck money at the team we should want him because he wants whats best for the team not himself.

McNamara That Ghost...
01-05-2012, 08:16 PM
My post above clear this up I think but in addition why can't someone rich also be a fan and thus want to invest and win, I don't think you'll find a Blackburn, Chelsea or Man City fan who isn't happy to have seen rich benefactors come in at the end of the day, as long as they don't damage the club I don't really see a problem.

Abrahmovic came in and despite many people's doubts stuck around, where would Chelsea actually be without him?

And where would Chelsea have been if he wasn't such an interfering berk? Short term it is great for the fans I am sure but it can't last, it certainly didn't last for Blackburn! Abramovich's spending has been muchly reduced since those first few years, there have been the few exceptions of course but it's only a big fee on one or two players over a few windows, not multiple fees of £20 million+ all in one and in lieu of that and his incessant managerial changes, their position in the league has become less and less secure.

Olivier's xmas twist
01-05-2012, 08:20 PM
He's stinking rich and hasn't he said he thinks we should spend and that he'd be willing to?When you're that rich a few hundred million here and there is pocket change, just ask Abrahmovic!

TBH i can't tell you what he said, because i have not really follwed him, hence why i asked the question.

He may love the club and he may what to win things. But all these things he says seems like things he thinks fans want to here.

it reminds me of the The President Elections of the clubs in spain they will say anything till they get that club and once they do don't always follow through.

All i see is the guy saying things to get fans onside. What makes people think he is Honest to follow through and once he gets the club do something else.

Just because he is rich don't mean he may want to just waste all that money.

Like i said i don't know nothing about the man so i can't make that call.

Kano
01-05-2012, 08:49 PM
i can't remember where but i do recall that usmanov was labelled a man utd fan. i can't see him investing as a fan, more looking in the long term for a return.

21_GOONER_SALUTE
03-05-2012, 12:01 AM
What makes you think Usmanov is the man to stand up to AW not just come in to make a profit like stan?


Well this


Because Usmanov got rich by being a very nice man and helping people, especially little old ladies who want to cross the road.
Though NQ probably meant this in his usual NQish way (and yeah I know you'd be the first to call 999 if a hair got misplaced on Le Profs regal crown),he hit the nail on the head i.e. it's the manner by which he got rich that suggests to me AW, his philosophy, the bath water and probably the baby would all be thrown out for something new.

I don't really have time to explain this properly, so I'll just list out incoherently assumptions in the theory I'm working with:

1. The majority of our board are Idiots- infact they are worse, they are "Public School We Never Lacked Idiots."

2. These sort of people have never been good at making money- it's not in their DNA. I'm taking a wild guess but I suspect in that richlist the SELFMADE Public School Millionaires could probably be counted with one hand.

3. These Idiots looked at Dein and now Wenger as modern day Alchemist, nay, Jesus like magicians i.e they were able to turn tapwater into Dom Perignon. If they had paid more attention in school they would have realised economic theory supported what we would become.

4. Thus these Idiots actually think they have stumbled on the" secret" (lol) winning formulae, maximised returns to capital ratio and it won't or can't get better than this.

Well it can and surely should have, if only the fools had actually had to work there way to the top they probably would know this.

So now what actually underpins my theory is this:

1. Arsenal is still a F**king undervalued entity and has been for ages- we are worth more than what they say we are and have always been( go ask Dein if you don't believe me)

2. If after 7 years of consistent FAILURE, we still are/have been, comfortably, the 3rd most valuable club in the world- where would we have been if it had been 7 years of trophy laden success??

3. We have (last time I checked anyway)
- the most profitable stadium in the club footballing world
-the richest fans (per capita income) among the top 20 most valuable clubs in the world
- and the highest average ticket prices in the whole world
.....so really if Arsenal fans are consistently willing to pay so much for FAILURE, is it inconcievable to think one could milk them far more if you gave them success???

Simply put the board right now think they are fleecing us, and they are to a pathetic extent, but in real terms they are not.
We can and probably will be fleeced more by a businessman who knows his onions.

In short, a 100 years of economic theory demands that the most valuable club in the world cannot be from Manchester in the longterm, unless Manchester as a city metamorphs into something else, it eventually has to change and will;if you still don't undertstand try and remember the last Manc you saw, I bet he wasn't a Manc.

Anyway I'm off to bed, and yeah I've had a few.

Niall_Quinn
03-05-2012, 12:30 AM
Simply put the board right now think they are fleecing us, and they are to a pathetic extent, but in real terms they are not.
We can and probably will be fleeced more by a businessman who knows his onions.

I think two more if you consider Kroenke hasn't really got his feet under the table yet.