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View Full Version : Pelé or Maradona?



Young Guns 11
27-05-2011, 02:15 PM
I know i'm sure this has been done a thousand times before...but im having this "discussion" with my mate right now. Im not old enough to have seen either play live, so all ive had to go on is youtube videos and the like. I'm plumping for Maradona, my flatmate says Pelé.

Anybody seen them play?

Boss
27-05-2011, 02:20 PM
Maradona, given he almost singlehandedly carried his team to glory whereas Pele had a ton of superstars to help him.

The Wengerbabies
27-05-2011, 02:21 PM
Maradona, given he almost singlehandedly carried his team to glory whereas Pele had a ton of superstars to help him.

Yeah he did <_<

Marc Overmars
27-05-2011, 02:26 PM
Going by the highlights I've watched over the years I think Maradona was the better player. Pele was pretty lethal as well but I can't take his statistics seriously given he spent almost all of his career in Brazil when the league was in it's infancy.

Young Guns 11
27-05-2011, 02:28 PM
Maradona, given he almost singlehandedly carried his team to glory whereas Pele had a ton of superstars to help him.

Theres a right old debate on youtube about it, i see a lot of them saying Pele was faster, stronger, and better in the air, and more of a complete footballer than Maradona. But surely the fact that Pele pretty much only played in Brazil makes the difference? Like I said, ive seen them live, and most of the youtube vids are such bad quality its hard to tell.

The Wengerbabies
27-05-2011, 02:29 PM
Stupid question. Bale is the clear winner.

Letters
27-05-2011, 02:32 PM
I've seen Maradona play :cool:

Going for Pele though as he wasn't a complete arse.

Master Splinter
27-05-2011, 04:36 PM
Jonathan Walters.

Niall_Quinn
27-05-2011, 04:46 PM
Pele, he played when it was quite legitimate for a defender to kick you thirty yards in the air.

Elreactor
27-05-2011, 05:09 PM
Brazil, even without Pele, could have won what they actually won with him.

Argentina, without Maradona, well I really doubt they would have won in ´86. At least they wouldn´t have gone further than the England maatch anyway. :)

So, Maradona was more, decisive maybe? Who knows which one was the best.

Oh and in 1990, without Maradona+water+a ton of brazil shots hitting the posts, Argentina wouldn´t have reached the final.

Rors
27-05-2011, 05:10 PM
Jonathan Walters.


:gp:

Rors
27-05-2011, 05:13 PM
Maradona otherwise though. He genuinely had it all, and has as been stated, plied his trade at the top of his game in three different countries - could have been four if Sheffield United had taken the plunge back in '78.

Ol' Edson wasn't even linked with anybody - and links did exist back then (we at the Villa were supposedly after Rodney bleedin' Marsh for a long time in the last 60s) - and I doubt there would have been much of a release clause from dear old Santos. Jairzinho was better anyway...

WMUG
27-05-2011, 05:22 PM
Eboue

Elreactor
27-05-2011, 05:25 PM
Eboue

That´s the obvious answer.

We were talking about lesser players, far behind the football paradise that Eboue represents, in all his grandeur. :sulk:

Kaiser
27-05-2011, 05:25 PM
Tbf to Pele, from what I read, the Brazilian league was very competitive and around the 60s, teams won by a point or so most of the time. Pele was a great player in a great team for Santos and Brazil, much like Messi is. Maradona seems to have been a great player in average teams.

Cripps_orig
27-05-2011, 05:48 PM
Pele and by quite some distance

Young Guns 11
27-05-2011, 06:04 PM
Pele and by quite some distance

Care to elaborate?

Cripps_orig
27-05-2011, 06:15 PM
Pele - won more, scored more, a team player, didnt need drugs to be a great footballer

Maradona - His legacy is on the back of a handball goal and running past Peter Reid and Terry Fenwick. Need i say more?

Master Splinter
27-05-2011, 08:26 PM
Pele - won more, scored more, a team player, didnt need drugs to be a great footballer

Maradona - His legacy is on the back of a handball goal and running past Peter Reid and Terry Fenwick. Need i say more?

:gp:

Pretty much.

He's also fat.

V-Pig
27-05-2011, 08:34 PM
Also, he's a dwarf half-breed of the Messi ilk.

GP
27-05-2011, 08:40 PM
Johan Cruyff was better.

fakeyank
27-05-2011, 09:06 PM
Maradona is miles better. He took a bunch of shit football players to WC glory in 86. He also took below average teams like Napoli to the title. He tarnished his image by taking drugs but there is no doubt he is better than Pele.

Niall_Quinn
27-05-2011, 10:51 PM
Maradona is miles better. He took a bunch of shit football players to WC glory in 86. He also took below average teams like Napoli to the title. He tarnished his image by taking drugs but there is no doubt he is better than Pele.

Well there is a little doubt at least, or else people wouldn't even be asking the question. If you put Pele's career record next to Maradona's then that's all you really need to answer the question. Maradona could have been great, but in the end he wasn't. Same goes for Best and Gazza. Pele held it together, he had the character, the others collapsed like Arsenal during a title run-in. Not a pretty sight tbh.

Niall_Quinn
27-05-2011, 10:52 PM
Johan Cruyff was better.

He has a funny nose though, so you can't really include him.

McNamara That Ghost...
28-05-2011, 01:56 AM
Out of those two, Maradona.

Toronto Gooner
28-05-2011, 02:58 AM
Pele, if for no other reason than he never had to rely on the "hand of god" to score.

If it were not for the fact that Bulgaria and Portugal were able to kick the shit out of Pele at during the 1966 World Cup (ironic that the fouling took place in England), Brasil would have been in the final, and we could have been talking about the only team and player to have won the world cup 4 time consecutively.

Boss
28-05-2011, 03:21 AM
He took recreational drugs, not performing enhancing ones.

Big difference IMO, hardly tarnishes his reputation.

As the hand of god was against England, should be a plus point for Diego bhai rather than a negative.

fakeyank
28-05-2011, 06:41 AM
He took recreational drugs, not performing enhancing ones.

Big difference IMO, hardly tarnishes his reputation.

As the hand of god was against England, should be a plus point for Diego bhai rather than a negative.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_N8XIbTjgYCE/TCfCiSRvETI/AAAAAAAAAfU/6BaEhYxyXeM/s1600/p1_maradona_1011.jpg

isv
28-05-2011, 09:24 AM
i would stump for pele, yes he played in brazil, but he wasnt in the age of foreign players playing here there and everywhere, wasnt about the money and big transfer fees, he played cause he loved the game, he now has problems with erections so his ball control has lapsed over the years.

Will our kids be having the same discussion 15 years from now about Messi and Ronaldo (gay one not fat one)

Young Guns 11
28-05-2011, 09:45 AM
Will our kids be having the same discussion 15 years from now about Messi and Ronaldo (gay one not fat one)

Na uh. Theres no discussion necessary

Cripps_orig
28-05-2011, 10:05 AM
Pretty much

Ronaldo and by even more distance than Pele over Maradona

Penguin
28-05-2011, 02:12 PM
Maradona edges it for me but I don't like how Pele gets written off just because he played for a good team. Maradona won the world cup with a relatively weak team but that doesn't mean Pele couldn't have. There's no way of knowing and it doesn't necessarily mean he was the better player. Pele outshone the rest of his Brazillian team-mates and was their go-to-guy who did the business when the team needed it.


Will our kids be having the same discussion 15 years from now about Messi and Ronaldo (gay one not fat one)
It will be a discussion of Messi vs Maradona vs Pele.

Unlike those three Ronaldo's pretty much just a goalscorer, albeit a very good one. Not only does Messi score just as many goals as Ronaldo, but he's much more influential on his team's performance and he's a team player. All that's remaining is for Messi to win the world cup and he'll be part of the elite trio, otherwise people will use it as a stick to beat him with.

Boss
28-05-2011, 02:21 PM
IMO since football is harder to play today than it was back then, Messi should be rated above the two if he can lead his country to the world cup.

Penguin
28-05-2011, 02:39 PM
True, but you could also say that officials protect attacking players much more now than they did back then. The likes of Maradona and Pele got taken apart at times. It's difficult to compare players from different eras but Messi is definately in that bracket.

Niall_Quinn
28-05-2011, 08:51 PM
IMO since football is harder to play today than it was back then, Messi should be rated above the two if he can lead his country to the world cup.

90% of the players today wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes back then. They have to be stretchered off if a fly lands on them.

GP
28-05-2011, 09:07 PM
Yo Pele, I'm really happy for you and I'mma let you finish, but Leo Messi is the best player of all time. Of all time!

Toronto Gooner
29-05-2011, 12:00 AM
IMO since football is harder to play today than it was back then, Messi should be rated above the two if he can lead his country to the world cup.
And why do you say that?

GP
29-05-2011, 12:01 AM
IMO since football is harder to play today than it was back then, Messi should be rated above the two if he can lead his country to the world cup.

I'd rate him above those two even without a world cup.

Toronto Gooner
29-05-2011, 12:02 AM
Yo Pele, I'm really happy for you and I'mma let you finish, but Leo Messi is the best player of all time. Of all time!
Three World Cups to zero. There has never been a team as good as the 1970 Brasil team.

Master Splinter
29-05-2011, 05:35 PM
Three World Cups to zero. There has never been a team as good as the 1970 Brasil team.
:gp:

Pretty much.

But I'm not sure they could do it up at Stoke on a cold winter's night, with the rain lashing down, Delap's vest-powered balls cannoning into the box and Jon Walters' super skills befuddling them. It's the one test they still need to pass tbh.

Boss
29-05-2011, 06:09 PM
And why do you say that?

Better players, better fitness, better conditioning, better tactics.

Kaiser
29-05-2011, 07:19 PM
Games were played at a far slower pace back then. Watch the 1966 final, it was at walking pace a lot of the time. So it was easier for more technically gifted players to shine. But, if a team did play physically, it was far rougher than what we see today. Pele got kicked out of the 1966 WC because of tactical fouling. But I think if the players then played now, they'd have the same fitness and conditioning etc.

Toronto Gooner
29-05-2011, 08:19 PM
Better players, better fitness, better conditioning, better tactics.
While it is highly likely that the fitness and conditioning are better these days, it is by no means certain that the players are better or that the tactics are better. It is an academic exercise anyway.

If we are going discuss best player, then players like Puskas, Di Stefano and Cruyff have to be brought into the mix. Cruyff deserves an extra mention because it is he who was responsible for Barcelona's current playing style, and youth academy.

Cripps_orig
23-06-2011, 05:24 PM
Brazil legend Pele insists Barcelona (http://www.goal.com/en-gb/teams/spain/125/barcelona-news) forward Lionel Messi (http://www.goal.com/en-gb/people/argentina/8012/lionel-messi) must score (http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2889/south-america/2011/06/23/2544887/barcelonas-lionel-messi-needs-to-score-1283-goals-to-be#) at least 1,283 goals during his career to be crowned the best ever player.

Speaking after his former club Santos beat Penarol 2-1 to lift the Copa Libertadores on Wednesday evening, the 70-year-old told the press: "Messi better than Pele? To get there he needs to score more than 1283 goals."

The three-time World Cup winner (http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2889/south-america/2011/06/23/2544887/barcelonas-lionel-messi-needs-to-score-1283-goals-to-be#) appeared to hit back at former Argentina coach Diego Maradona who recently claimed Neymar was bad mannered just like Pele, after the youngster said he could be better than Messi by staying in Brazil, rather than moving to Europe.

Pele added: "Neymar has great talent. I hope Neymar doesn't end up like Messi, who plays (http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2889/south-america/2011/06/23/2544887/barcelonas-lionel-messi-needs-to-score-1283-goals-to-be#) so well for his club but does nothing for his country [Argentina]."

Messi scored 31 goals in La Liga, and 12 in the Champions (http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2889/south-america/2011/06/23/2544887/barcelonas-lionel-messi-needs-to-score-1283-goals-to-be#) League, including one in the final at Wembley as his side lifted the European Cup last term.


http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2889/south-america/2011/06/23/2544887/barcelonas-lionel-messi-needs-to-score-1283-goals-to-be

Pele :bow:

Spot on as usual

Drug takers :pal:

McNamara That Ghost...
23-06-2011, 05:55 PM
He's an idiot.

Young Guns 11
23-06-2011, 05:59 PM
He actually said that?

He's obviously got as many marbles as my 91 year old gran. :doh:

Cripps_orig
23-06-2011, 06:02 PM
To be fair to Pele, those comments were in retaliation to what Maradona said about Neymar.

Boss
23-06-2011, 06:09 PM
What did Maradona say about Neymar? :popcorn:

Cripps_orig
23-06-2011, 06:10 PM
Diego Maradona blasted Neymar, the football star who plays at the Brazilian team Santos, by saying that he is “as bad-mannered person as Pelé,” after the Brazilian assured that he does not need to leave Brazil to demonstrate that he is better than Lionel Messi.
Maradona told the Spaniard press that the player from Rosario is his heir, who also tried to score a goal by using his hand in the friendly match played on Monday against Albania.
The football icon qualified Messi as an “exceptional player” that “no one can beat,” comparing him to Neymar, the Brazilian player.
“Neymar is a bad-mannered person who does not respect the others, such as Pelé,” Maradona told reporters.
Pelé and Maradona have been eternal rivals fighting for the throne of who is the best football player in the world, making stronger the historical rivalry between Brazil and Argentina in the sport.

http://www.buenosairesherald.com/article/70759/maradona-neymar-is-as-badmannered-as-pel%C3%A9

Cripps_orig
23-06-2011, 06:14 PM
Argentine legend and current manager of Al Wasl, Diego Maradona (http://blogs.bettor.com/Football-soccer/Diego-Maradona-c11160) has gone on to hit back at Neymar. The Santos (http://blogs.bettor.com/Football-soccer/Santos-c32532) forward is currently being linked with a move to Real (http://blogs.bettor.com/Football-soccer/Real-c30728) Madrid, but, it seems like Maradona feels the player has a lot of work cut out ahead of him.
When talking about the player, Maradona went on to state that Neymar if anything was rude, just like Pele (http://blogs.bettor.com/Football-soccer/Pele-c40189).
One of the reasons that could be attributed for Maradona going up against Pele and Neymar, is because of the fact that Pele recently made comments about Messi, stating that he has a lot of work cut out ahead of him, if he wished to match the success that Pele achieved as a player. On the other hand, Neymar recently went on to state, that he could become a far better player than Messi, should he continue to play football at the highest of levels.
Nonetheless, Maradona seems to have had enough of the Brazilian attitude that has been floating about recently, as he went on to hit back at both Pele and Neymar (http://blogs.bettor.com/Football-soccer/Neymar-c27639).
The manager is quoted to have said:"Neymar is bad mannered, like Pele"
Maradona then turned his attention to targeting the brilliance of Messi and stating how he was one of the best in the business, as he went on to add:"Messi is an exceptional player and I doubt anyone can separate him [from being the best]."
It seems like Maradona has managed to kill two birds with one stone in this situation. Not only has he managed to get back at Pele (Whom he has a history of bad blood with), but he has also managed to put Neymar in his place, who according to most was starting to get a little cocky with his attitude.
At the same time, the fact that the manager has gone on to side with Messi is no secret. The midfielder/forward, has easily been the stand out player this past season and after winning another Champions League and La Liga title, he is destined to go down as one of the greatest players to ever play the game.
Nonetheless, considering that Maradona has now gone on to target two Brazilian players, whom the world seems to adore, he might have just opened Pandora’s Box. It would not be surprising to see the next couple of weeks resulting in both Maradona and Pele having swings at each other in front of the media, but it is going to be interesting to watch.

http://blogs.bettor.com/Diego-Maradona-hits-out-at-Santos-forward-Neymar,-while-he-hails-Lionel-Messi-a77314

Think Peles won this comfortably as usual