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Letters
02-08-2011, 08:55 AM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/14366574.stm

Only 11 out of the 104 clubs in England and Scotland will offer adults the chance to enjoy a day at the football for less than £20 during the new season.


etc.

Injury Time
02-08-2011, 10:46 AM
Tbf no one really is going to enjoy watching Blackburn are they?

"Arsenal pie is most expensive at £4" yes, but all the others taste like you're eating the box...

IBK
02-08-2011, 10:53 AM
Tbf no one really is going to enjoy watching Blackburn are they?

"Arsenal pie is most expensive at £4" yes, but all the others taste like you're eating the box...

What annoys me about this survey is that if you did it on the cost of beer in a pub, then London prices would be 2x some Northern shithole - and people would appreciate that the cost of living is a lot more expensive down here. Yet because our pies are the most expensive, its another stick to beat AFC with.

Xhaka Canít
02-08-2011, 11:19 AM
What annoys me about this survey is that if you did it on the cost of beer in a pub, then London prices would be 2x some Northern shithole - and people would appreciate that the cost of living is a lot more expensive down here. Yet because our pies are the most expensive, its another stick to beat AFC with.

The pies are four fucking pounds!

IBK
02-08-2011, 12:16 PM
So what? You'll find similar prices for equivalent items at most big venues down here.

Letters
02-08-2011, 12:23 PM
The pies are four fucking pounds!

They are bloodly lovely though.
Unlike the burgers which are the same price if not more and horrid.

Joker
02-08-2011, 01:00 PM
The problem is the club is purely influenced by market forces, which is also part of the reason for the expensive prices of food, drink etc at the ground. Yes, being based on London is part of it, but some other clubs are willing to take a hit on revenue to ensure they don't shaft the fans, because they're not run 100% as a pure, private enterprise.

Injury Time
02-08-2011, 01:01 PM
They are bloodly lovely though.
Unlike the burgers which are the same price if not more and horrid.
tbh I think I'm looking forward more to the Balti pies than watching the team :cloud9: wouldn't touch the dogs/ pizza or burgers when there are nicer and considerably cheaper providers outside

Xhaka Canít
02-08-2011, 01:04 PM
No you won't. That is why they are more expensive than anywhere else. And that is where this Club positions itself - as being the most or damn near the most expensive at just about every aspect of it's business.

It would be nice to get something of the commensurate quality in return. And no, I don't really give a fuck about the price of pies, in the general scheme of things, they are immaterial.

What is not immaterial however, is this club's business model of screwing us at every available opportunity.

Injury Time
02-08-2011, 01:08 PM
The problem is the club is purely influenced by market forces, which is also part of the reason for the expensive prices of food, drink etc at the ground. Yes, being based on London is part of it, but some other clubs are willing to take a hit on revenue to ensure they don't shaft the fans, because they're not run 100% as a pure, private enterprise.
The food/ profits is not provided by/ go to Arsenal, Delaware North Foods bought the contract (they also rob you at Wembley and other assorted venues) to help finance the capital for the stadium that is bring us the prosperity we are enjoying at the moment.

oh and from Arse.con FAQs

Food and Drink
Food within reason is allowed into the Stadium. Soft drinks in small plastic bottles and flasks are also allowed. Aluminium cans and alcohol are NOT allowed into the Stadium.

Water
Tap water is freely available from the concessions . Please queue in the normal way and on request you will be given a plastic cup of water.

IBK
02-08-2011, 01:21 PM
No you won't. That is why they are more expensive than anywhere else. And that is where this Club positions itself - as being the most or damn near the most expensive at just about every aspect of it's business.

It would be nice to get something of the commensurate quality in return. And no, I don't really give a fuck about the price of pies, in the general scheme of things, they are immaterial.

What is not immaterial however, is this club's business model of screwing us at every available opportunity.

Been to Wembley, have you? Or the Opera? Or an open air gig? Or the Cricket? believe me - you get stiffed just as much for equivalent product at most events down here.

Xhaka Canít
02-08-2011, 01:32 PM
You have completely missed the point.

IBK
02-08-2011, 01:43 PM
You have completely missed the point.

How so? You are accusing Arsenal of ripping fans off, I am saying that you can't just look at a table like they have produced and make a straight comparison, because everything costs more in the capital.

If you want to confine things to football, for me there are only 3 potential football venues that can compare to the Emirates for pricing purposes. Wembley; White Hart Lane and Stamford Bridge. The likes of West Ham and Fulham are simply not in the demand bracket, so can't be used as fair comparisons.

Wembley is even more expensive than the Emirates; White Hart Lane is an absolute shithole that offers nowhere near the venue of the Emirates. Stamford Bridge is more or less on a par with us, price-wise.

Also, if you look at the survey, while we have the most expensive tickets, we also have cheaper tickets than, say, Liverpool.

I agree that football clubs rip their fans off. But I think its unfair to brand AFC the worst offender, when you take all circumstances into account.

Cripps_orig
02-08-2011, 01:57 PM
Never had a pie or drink the piss known as beer so its cheap for me tbh

Xhaka Canít
02-08-2011, 02:03 PM
I am referring specifically to Arsenal's business model. Even allowing for the London Premium the Club are gouging it's fans and were doing so long before they decided to stick us for another 6.5 per cent.

This Club never knowingly offer value.

Shaqiri Is Boss
02-08-2011, 02:03 PM
Completely pointless table but I guess it gave the journalists something to do over the close season.

IBK
02-08-2011, 02:18 PM
I am referring specifically to Arsenal's business model. Even allowing for the London Premium the Club are gouging it's fans and were doing so long before they decided to stick us for another 6.5 per cent.

This Club never knowingly offer value.

No - they follow the market like everyone else. Name me a football club that willingly charges less than it could in its particular market, and most people would say that its charirman was a fool...

Xhaka Canít
02-08-2011, 07:38 PM
This isn't a market in the traditional sense. It is in no way a case of if you don't like Brand A, you go to Brand B. They arent following a market at all and they are charging more than anyone else while increasingly delivering less and in time it will come back to bite them on the ass.

Buit they won't care because one by one they are selling out and pocketing their millions.

Well done them.

Cunts.

Coney
02-08-2011, 07:43 PM
Been to Wembley, have you? Or the Opera? Or an open air gig? Or the Cricket? believe me - you get stiffed just as much for equivalent product at most events down here.

I got stiff at the opera on more than one occasion watching a nice bint diva in the Magic Flute.

Xhaka Canít
02-08-2011, 07:49 PM
I got stiff at the opera on more than one occasion watching a nice bint diva in the Magic Flute.

That's nothing, we have Nasri.

Coney
02-08-2011, 08:09 PM
That's nothing, we have Nasri.

La Tranniata?

GP
02-08-2011, 08:26 PM
La Tranniata?

The Marriage of Fagaro.

Xhaka Canít
02-08-2011, 08:54 PM
:haha: Coney, GP - well played.

IBK
03-08-2011, 09:58 AM
This isn't a market in the traditional sense. It is in no way a case of if you don't like Brand A, you go to Brand B. They arent following a market at all and they are charging more than anyone else while increasingly delivering less and in time it will come back to bite them on the ass.

Buit they won't care because one by one they are selling out and pocketing their millions.

Well done them.

Cunts.

Sorry, mate, but that's bollox. The club is following the market at its most simple. Supply and demand. Just because fans tend to be fans for life doesn't prevent them from staying at home and watching the football on TV, or coming to games and eating from a stall outside the ground.

Talking of TV - has it occurred to you that we tend to be on TV a great deal? Like it or not that is partly because we still have a rep for playing good football, and having people wanting to watch us. ie delivering product. I think sometimes we have to step aside from our frustrations as fans and see the bigger picture.

LDG
03-08-2011, 10:24 AM
Pointless buying anything in the ground.

£2.50 for a nice greasy Cheeseburger at one of the local vans is much more football.

Beer in the pub before. Hipflask full of whiskey for the ground.

Job done.

Letters
03-08-2011, 11:10 AM
The pies are worth paying for IMO 'cos they're nicer than what's outside.
If you want a burger or anything else though, go to the van outside the Rocket, or any of the other similar vans around the ground.

Xhaka Canít
03-08-2011, 11:14 AM
Sorry, mate, but that's bollox.

That's ok, lets just declare you right then shall we?

Letters
03-08-2011, 11:34 AM
Ah, the old marc tactic.
Shout "I'm right! I'm right! I'm right!" loud as you can.

Arsenal are just doing what makes sense for a business. Demand (still) exceeds demand so they can make prices high, fill the stadium and sell lots of over-priced food and merchendise.

They're not doing the right thing in terms of a club creating and maintaining a connection with fans. But we've long since stopped being a club.

Not a problem that's unique to Arsenal of course but a big reason why football has become so soulless and crap.

:(

Xhaka Canít
03-08-2011, 11:51 AM
Letters, who have you directed that at?

IBK
03-08-2011, 11:53 AM
Letters, who have you directed that at?

You - you touchy little tinker.

Xhaka Canít
03-08-2011, 12:01 PM
I am right, but I never shouted it out. The club are progressively offering less for more. We are progressively getting to witnessing a reduction in demand as people zoom up a waiting list - I moved up over 7000 places in a year and couldn't bring myself to pay 1400£ for a ST. Eventually this continuing gouging of fans is going to bite them in the ass because the point will come where demand fails to match supply.

If you want to talk about it in strictly business terms, history is littered with seemingly unassailable companies disappearing into oblivion because they did not listen to their customers. The longer this goes on, the more likely it is to happen.

Niall_Quinn
03-08-2011, 12:15 PM
All it will take is for Chelsea to build a new stadium with a better corporate suite and a better complimentary vintage champagne. When you lose touch with the real fans and start courting the corporate weasels you'd better have the best package in town or they are gone. These guys aren't turning up out of loyalty, they're turning up for the comfy seats.

Xhaka Canít
03-08-2011, 12:37 PM
I thought it was to attend GW meets.

Letters
03-08-2011, 12:45 PM
it wasn't directed at anyone specifically, just my general thoughts on the state of the game and a response to the thread.

Xhaka Canít
03-08-2011, 12:49 PM
I'm right I'm right I'm right.

I am right!

Letters
03-08-2011, 12:49 PM
If you want to talk about it in strictly business terms, history is littered with seemingly unassailable companies disappearing into oblivion because they did not listen to their customers. The longer this goes on, the more likely it is to happen.

There is a difference though and that's the principle of a club having fans which most businesses don't.
I might like a certain company's products but if they keep upping the price for increasingly shoddy stuff then at some point I'm going to go elsewhere.
You're an Arsenal fan, you can't go elsewhere.
You can not go at all of course but right now there are enough people out there still willing to go. How long that persists of course remains to be seen. A trophy in the next couple of years and the mood will change.

Xhaka Canít
03-08-2011, 12:52 PM
There is a difference though and that's the principle of a club having fans which most businesses don't.
I might like a certain company's products but if they keep upping the price for increasingly shoddy stuff then at some point I'm going to go elsewhere.
You're an Arsenal fan, you can't go elsewhere.
You can not go at all of course but right now there are enough people out there still willing to go. How long that persists of course remains to be seen. A trophy in the next couple of years and the mood will change.

A point I made earlier, but I offered a strictly business answer to someone who wants to talk in a strictly business sense.

IBK
03-08-2011, 01:35 PM
A point I made earlier, but I offered a strictly business answer to someone who wants to talk in a strictly business sense.

Don't see what is so difficult to understand here, TBH. A club may have captive fans, but it doesn't prevent it from being subject to the rules of supply and demand on some level, which Arsenal is.

The way you talk you would think that football as a whole doesn't exploit its fan base - only AFC does. That's bollix, as you well know. Football sold its soul years ago, and if AFC wasn't trying to maximise its profits it would be regarded as commercially naive - in fact that's exactly what many were saying before we finally gave in to the lucrative pre-season tour model.

...and FWIW I disagree with Letters' point:


You're an Arsenal fan, you can't go elsewhere.

If as an Arsenal fan you don't like ticket prices, you can stay at home. If you don't like the food or drink prices, eat/drink outside the ground.

Letters
03-08-2011, 01:53 PM
I'm not sure how you managed to disagree with me while repeating what I said.
Yes, you have the option not to go. But the point is that while Arsenal (and other clubs) are run along business lines the nature of support means their 'customers' are far more loyal than those of most companies.
It also means that although they can use that loyalty to maximise profits, they probably shouldn't.
And I don't think gary has said anywhere that Arsenal are unique in exploiting their fans.

IBK
03-08-2011, 02:16 PM
I'm not sure how you managed to disagree with me while repeating what I said.
Yes, you have the option not to go. But the point is that while Arsenal (and other clubs) are run along business lines the nature of support means their 'customers' are far more loyal than those of most companies.
It also means that although they can use that loyalty to maximise profits, they probably shouldn't.
And I don't think gary has said anywhere that Arsenal are unique in exploiting their fans.

Gary has suggested that my arguments about Arsenal are not based on business principles. I am merely responding that - captive fans or not - it is subject to the most basic of business principles - supply and demand.

He doesn't suggest expressly that Arsenal are unique, but if we are going to slag off our club, the least we can do is to do so in the context of the fact that AFC is merely a satellite in a wider world of football's commercialism. Noone has responded to my poit that if the club didn't do so it would be slagged off for being naive and not maximising its business revenue.

And I don't understand you when you say that I am disagreeing with you while repeating what you said. You say they can't go elsewhere. I say of course they can - they can either stay at home or choose to go to tthe match but avoid the food outlets.

LDG
03-08-2011, 02:18 PM
They gave me a free Arsenal scarf at the beginning of 2009/10

Xhaka Canít
03-08-2011, 03:27 PM
Don't see what is so difficult to understand here, TBH. A club may have captive fans, but it doesn't prevent it from being subject to the rules of supply and demand on some level, which Arsenal is.

The way you talk you would think that football as a whole doesn't exploit its fan base - only AFC does. That's bollix, as you well know. Football sold its soul years ago, and if AFC wasn't trying to maximise its profits it would be regarded as commercially naive - in fact that's exactly what many were saying before we finally gave in to the lucrative pre-season tour model.

...and FWIW I disagree with Letters' point:



If as an Arsenal fan you don't like ticket prices, you can stay at home. If you don't like the food or drink prices, eat/drink outside the ground.

I don't see how you consistently fail to grasp the crux of the argument being made. You either don't understand or are ignoring the key point being made that the Club is progressively offering less for more, this is reducing demand and if this trajectory continues, supply will eventually outstrip demand. I honestly can't fathom your difficulty understanding this POV and like Letters I can't understand how you can make the same point as him yet disagree with it.

Bizarre.

Niall_Quinn
03-08-2011, 03:54 PM
I don't see how you consistently fail to grasp the crux of the argument being made. You either don't understand or are ignoring the key point being made that the Club is progressively offering less for more, this is reducing demand and if this trajectory continues, supply will eventually outstrip demand. I honestly can't fathom your difficulty understanding this POV and like Letters I can't understand how you can make the same point as him yet disagree with it.

Bizarre.

Prices are up, performances and results are down, the only plus is fans now literally have a better pot to piss in given the facilities have been improved. But how many fans are living it up in the reserved sections? It's an indisputable fact the fans are now paying more for less, it's obvious, self evident, beyond argument. That said, power companies, rail companies, TV companies, telecoms companies, the petrol station, the lousy shit-stained, thieving, cuntish government, it's all the same - more cost, less delivery. The average citizen is being fucked up, down and sideways by an ever bloated gang of despicable corporate cunts. It's what WE have allowed to happen and if the people who are laughing at GB's letter and taking the piss had only bothered to stand up themselves, things could be different. And what of the constant moaning that seems to get on the nerves of those who apparently enjoy being fucked hard up the arse without even being offered a drink or dinner? Let me tell you, when we all go silent that's when the shafting will really get nasty.

Coney
03-08-2011, 08:46 PM
They gave me a free Arsenal scarf at the beginning of 2009/10

Twice. I've got two of them. :)

Xhaka Canít
03-08-2011, 08:48 PM
Twice. I've got two of them. :)

That explains the 6.5% hike in tickets.

IBK
03-08-2011, 09:01 PM
I don't see how you consistently fail to grasp the crux of the argument being made. You either don't understand or are ignoring the key point being made that the Club is progressively offering less for more, this is reducing demand and if this trajectory continues, supply will eventually outstrip demand. I honestly can't fathom your difficulty understanding this POV and like Letters I can't understand how you can make the same point as him yet disagree with it.

Bizarre.

Easy to explain. The club is exploiting its fans. But it is able to do so because of market forces. Why should it not try to increase its revenue, when demand remains high, and no fucker else in the top half of the EPL is doing anything different?

Niall_Quinn
03-08-2011, 09:17 PM
Easy to explain. The club is exploiting its fans. But it is able to do so because of market forces. Why should it not try to increase its revenue, when demand remains high, and no fucker else in the top half of the EPL is doing anything different?

Dangerous game assuming demand is inelastic, plus there's an inertia because the board is gradually running the team down rather than dumping it in one hit. It's entirely conceivable that another couple of crappy seasons and a failure at the top level to change direction could see the stadium only half full.

Xhaka Canít
03-08-2011, 09:37 PM
I think the bigger shorter term threat is on revenue from Corporate Suites/Boxes. Corporate entertainers are hardly going to impress their clients by taking them to see pre pubescent losers in front of 55k groaning pissed off fans, a large proportion of whom will be weighing up whether or not to renew the following season.

Coney
03-08-2011, 09:43 PM
That explains the 6.5% hike in tickets.

Also explains why they wanted nearly 70 quid for my Liverpool ticket. :(