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Originally Posted by
Niall_Quinn
The whole first part of your post is an excuse for the absence of freedom
You have mixed up excuse and reason.
The reason we can't have true freedom is because we have a society. I believe those things are fundamentally incompatible. Because a society needs rules. And unless those rules are ones which everyone agrees on - which becomes impossible as soon as you have more then a handful of people - then some people will be subject to rules they don't agree with. It's inevitable. I don't see how a society functions if there aren't a common set of rules to live by.
But, for most people, the cost of living a society is outweighed by the benefits. I mean, you don't get a choice about it I guess. I just can't see an alternative. Maybe I lack imagination.
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based on a sleight of hand that claims I said society is unnecessary as opposed to government.
I have no idea how you got that from my posts. Where did I claim you said that?
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You can easily have a society without a gang in charge that awards themselves superior rights.
A government doesn't award themselves superior rights, they are awarded those via an election.
Although I wouldn't say it's superior rights. They are awarded authority. They are still subject to the laws they define - as Boris recently found out.
You can't have a society without rules and while government is not the only way of defining those rules it's probably the least bad way.
And sure, if government stops then things don't fall apart. All the rules and the mechanisms of society are in place. But if the rules need to change then who decides that and how they should change?
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There's not a single case that can be argued where society doesn't benefit from at least less government, and most by no government at all.
Agreed about less, I don't agree about none for the reasons I've outlined. Our version of it, and democracy, is really poor. But I believe some version of it is necessary.
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But, let's face it, my roads are going to be twice as good at half the price, and my schools are going to put yours to shame, and my hospitals will actually cure people rather than perpetuate their symptoms. And my standard of living will be twice yours.
My counterpoint being - none of that is true.
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That's the real reason why freedom is disallowed. If people caught a sniff of freedom they'd never go back to servitude.
No it isn't and no they wouldn't. Because freedom isn't "disallowed", it's just not possible in the context of a society. And most people don't see it as servitude. I don't. I'm pretty much as free as I want to be.
The government aren't out to oppress and control me. The Covid response was an outlier but as I kept saying those were temporary measures to deal with a temporary situation. In normal times the government pretty much let us get on with it. Sure, I grumble about the tax burden and the way it's used. And I am pretty despondent about the current lot. But I believe in society (to clarify, I'm not saying you don't), a society needs rules and I think government is the least bad way of defining those.