Liverpool vs Arsenal 9th April 2023 player rating and match summary

Ramsdale - 9 - He gets a lot of criticism but despite our bright start the fact that we’ve come away with a point is down to him.


White - 5 - Is his best position centre back or full back, it makes you wonder when up against the big teams away from home


Holding - 4 - Actually played ok at first, dealt well with set pieces but as predicted couldn’t deal with pace and gave away a penalty


Gabriel - 6 Did his best but wasn’t helped much by those around him


Zinchenko - 3 - I say he’s not a full back but based on his cameo neither is Tierney, both wretched


Xhaka - 3 - Dawdling on the ball, cannot help himself responding to even the faintest of needling…we just need better. Sell him and bring in Tielemans on a free


Partey - 6 - Wasn’t terrible but I think all this he can play through the press stuff is a little over stated


Martinelli 8 - Last season it was clear Saka was our player of the season, now Martinelli is a contender along with Saka, Odegaard and Partey


Odegaard 6 - Wasn’t at his best


Saka - 7 - Great first half, just couldn’t get the service and seemed to be tired second half


Jesus - 7 - If we win the title we will need this guys goals.



Subs


Tierney 4 - Made to look like a mug by Salah


Trossard 6 - Hard working but not much opportunity to show anything



Kiwior 6 - Didn’t really see much contribution good or bad. Throwing him into a game like this seemed harsh



Well, there’s no question having a two goal lead and letting it slip is deeply disappointing. But sometimes I think we need to appreciate just what we are coming up against. Yes you can question the mentality of certain players (cough Xhaka) but is that any real surprise. Our midfield is not good enough, our defensive cover is arguably not good enough…but when I say not good enough it’s the standard being set by teams like the one we played today who have chewed us up and spat us out for fun in the past.

Man City are probably the best team in Europe pound for pound, that we’ve gone toe to toe with them for so long is objectively impressive. This idea that City have not had a great season by their standards is bollocks…they are still on course to finish 90+ points.

And so are we.

Winning the title was always going to be a white knuckle ride. And it’s not over yet

Played so well for 40 mins but then sadly just lost all composure and control. We were dominated in the second half and it was quite disappointing to see us suffocated like that, without really looking like we could have scored a third. I think we settled for 1-2 too early and waited too long to make changes. We were very lucky to escape with a point and Ramsdale deserves all the credit for that.

It’s not a terrible result but because the margins are so fine it’s definitely titled towards City as it stands.

I can’t help but be defeatist now, as I have zero faith that we’ll avoid defeat at the Etihad. Praying for a miracle that they drop some unexpected points somewhere.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

Ramsdale - 9 - He gets a lot of criticism but despite our bright start the fact that we’ve come away with a point is down to him.


White - 5 - Is his best position centre back or full back, it makes you wonder when up against the big teams away from home


Holding - 4 - Actually played ok at first, dealt well with set pieces but as predicted couldn’t deal with pace and gave away a penalty


Gabriel - 6 Did his best but wasn’t helped much by those around him


Zinchenko - 3 - I say he’s not a full back but based on his cameo neither is Tierney, both wretched


Xhaka - 3 - Dawdling on the ball, cannot help himself responding to even the faintest of needling…we just need better. Sell him and bring in Tielemans on a free


Partey - 6 - Wasn’t terrible but I think all this he can play through the press stuff is a little over stated


Martinelli 8 - Last season it was clear Saka was our player of the season, now Martinelli is a contender along with Saka, Odegaard and Partey


Odegaard 6 - Wasn’t at his best


Saka - 7 - Great first half, just couldn’t get the service and seemed to be tired second half


Jesus - 7 - If we win the title we will need this guys goals.



Subs


Tierney 4 - Made to look like a mug by Salah


Trossard 6 - Hard working but not much opportunity to show anything



Kiwior 6 - Didn’t really see much contribution good or bad. Throwing him into a game like this seemed harsh



Well, there’s no question having a two goal lead and letting it slip is deeply disappointing. But sometimes I think we need to appreciate just what we are coming up against. Yes you can question the mentality of certain players (cough Xhaka) but is that any real surprise. Our midfield is not good enough, our defensive cover is arguably not good enough…but when I say not good enough it’s the standard being set by teams like the one we played today who have chewed us up and spat us out for fun in the past.

Man City are probably the best team in Europe pound for pound, that we’ve gone toe to toe with them for so long is objectively impressive. This idea that City have not had a great season by their standards is bollocks…they are still on course to finish 90+ points.

And so are we.

Winning the title was always going to be a white knuckle ride. And it’s not over yet

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Now you've got me doing a Mac on you... did you actually watch the game, because how you can give Partey a 6 is just plain old bizarre?!

He and Martinelli were the only players who weren't over awed for the whole 90 mins and he was easily the most composed player on the pitch.

Only Ramsdale should outscore him but thankfully you got that right .

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

Played so well for 40 mins but then sadly just lost all composure and control. We were dominated in the second half and it was quite disappointing to see us suffocated like that, without really looking like we could have scored a third. I think we settled for 1-2 too early and waited too long to make changes. We were very lucky to escape with a point and Ramsdale deserves all the credit for that.

It’s not a terrible result but because the margins are so fine it’s definitely titled towards City as it stands.

I can’t help but be defeatist now, as I have zero faith that we’ll avoid defeat at the Etihad. Praying for a miracle that they drop some unexpected points somewhere.

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I felt that City were favourites for the title from when they beat us at home

But the main problem we have is that the bar gets set so high for winning the title that it becomes almost impossible against a side that just doesn’t drop points. The context is that city have won four out of the last five league titles


Only one of those times have they done so getting fewer than 90 points

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Originally Posted by 21_GOONER_SALUTE

Now you've got me doing a Mac on you... did you actually watch the game, because how you can give Partey a 6 is just plain old bizarre?!

He and Martinelli were the only players who weren't over awed for the whole 90 mins and he was easily the most composed player on the pitch.

Only Ramsdale should outscore him but thankfully you got that right .

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I thought he got muscled off the ball too easily at times…but perhaps you’re right…it’s possible that I expect so much from him that if he doesn’t deliver the ridiculous standards he usually does it feels like he hasn’t been great.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

I felt that City were favourites for the title from when they beat us at home

But the main problem we have is that the bar gets set so high for winning the title that it becomes almost impossible against a side that just doesn’t drop points. The context is that city have won four out of the last five league titles


Only one of those times have they done so getting fewer than 90 points

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The fact Liverpool missed out against this team with 92 and 97 points says it all.

Today was kind of a point gained considering the swing in the game, Liverpool had us on ropes for pretty much the entire second half. I was disappointed with us today, I felt we crumbled under the pressure and if it wasn't for Ramsdale, we would have got soundly beaten today. We started the game really well and were in control for around 40 minutes but then we just crumbled.

I personally think City are favourites for the title for the simple reason that I don't think we will get anything from the game at the Etihad.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 21_GOONER_SALUTE

Now you've got me doing a Mac on you... did you actually watch the game, because how you can give Partey a 6 is just plain old bizarre?!

He and Martinelli were the only players who weren't over awed for the whole 90 mins and he was easily the most composed player on the pitch.

Only Ramsdale should outscore him but thankfully you got that right .

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Also Gabriel was very good, given he has to do the job of one and a half players, a 7.5 at least

Also, I think this was the poorest I have seen Saka in ages.

He was utterly useless in the first half, but what got to me most was his lack of tracking back and helping out White who died and became a ghost after his yellow card.

Yes he picked up his game in the 2nd half but I was really disappointed with the way he approached this game in its entirety...thank God for the 2 Gabriels who gave it their all!

And as for Captain Marvel (Odegaard), no surprise, he did the usual and disappeared when things became difficult. In the summer we need to improve on him or get him some real competition. The Tottenham game remains the only top game I can think of in which he stood up to be counted. Hell I enjoyed watching Xhaka on the pitch today more than him.......ok maybe I'm stretching it a bit!

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Originally Posted by Mac76

Also Gabriel was very good, given he has to do the job of one and a half players, a 7.5 at least

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As I have repeatedly said to you, feel free to do your own player ratings

Ram - 9
White - 6.5
Holding - 6
Gabriel - 7.5
Zin - 3
Partey - 7
Odegaard - 7.5
Xhaka - 1
Martinelli - 9
Saka - 7
Jesus - 8

Subs

Trossard - 7.5
Tierney - 7
Kiwior - no idea, didn't see him do anything

Arteta - 3 - the wrong team and bottled it when it came to the subs

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mac76

Ram - 9
White - 6.5
Holding - 6
Gabriel - 7.5
Zin - 3
Partey - 7
Odegaard - 7.5
Xhaka - 1
Martinelli - 9
Saka - 7
Jesus - 8

Subs

Trossard - 7.5
Tierney - 7
Kiwior - no idea, didn't see him do anything

Arteta - 3 - the wrong team and bottled it when it came to the subs

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I’ve never done a manager rating, but given I hate Arteta it’s probably best I don’t

Actually no that’s not true, I don’t hate him I just can’t warm to him…got all the charm of Andy Murray

But yeah he was far too passive today, felt like he didn’t know whether to stick or twist. In many ways you can’t blame him for putting out the side he did, if he was better at rotating the team he could have made those tweaks to the starting line up…though in all honesty Tierney was just as shit as Zinchenko so not sure would have done us much better to start with him.
Xhaka? I think for some reason he’s undroppable in Arteta’s eyes now granted I don’t think he’s had a terrible season…definitely his best (he was good(ish) two seasons ago just terrible last season).

I want him gone and Tielemans in

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

As I have repeatedly said to you, feel free to do your own player ratings

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I often do and just did before i saw this

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Originally Posted by selassie

Today was kind of a point gained considering the swing in the game, Liverpool had us on ropes for pretty much the entire second half. I was disappointed with us today, I felt we crumbled under the pressure and if it wasn't for Ramsdale, we would have got soundly beaten today. We started the game really well and were in control for around 40 minutes but then we just crumbled.

I personally think City are favourites for the title for the simple reason that I don't think we will get anything from the game at the Etihad.

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Its a shame that we've practically made that game into some sort of final for the EPL.

Well I had said earlier this season that the only way I'd believe we don't deserve to be crowned champions is if we lose to City twice...TBH after the way we handled them at home, I have almost lost faith in getting anything from them.

Its really a psychological thing, we should have beaten Liverpool convincingly today, even with Holding (who had a relatively good game surprisingly), but once Jesus and Xhaka got their fans going...you could see the belief going out of the lads and they were just playing to run down the clock.

I am just plain hopeful now, because psychologically, these guys are still pretty weak.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 21_GOONER_SALUTE

Its a shame that we've practically made that game into some sort of final for the EPL.

Well I had said earlier this season that the only way I'd believe we don't deserve to be crowned champions is if we lose to City twice...TBH after the way we handled them at home, I have almost lost faith in getting anything from them.

Its really a psychological thing, we should have beaten Liverpool convincingly today, even with Holding (who had a relatively good game surprisingly), but once Jesus and Xhaka got their fans going...you could see the belief going out of the lads and they were just playing to run down the clock.

I am just plain hopeful now, because psychologically, these guys are still pretty weak.

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Yeah I hear you.

For the first 40 minutes we were in total control today, Jesus and Martinelli especially were giving them the run around. Once Liverpool scored the momentum swung. The second half was painful viewing, they totally dominated us in every area of the pitch, not only did we perform poorly but it felt as if the players did not believe they could win the game. It was like watching "Arsenal" of a few seasons back hanging on for dear life when ahead in a game, we just retreated and invited wave upon wave of attacks.

I do think the mentality of the team has improved and do believe we can bounce back so to speak....but our run-in is really difficult. Despite that, if we can avoid defeat at the Etihad and St James's Park and take care of things in the rest of our games then we will be Champions, that's a big if though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

Played so well for 40 mins but then sadly just lost all composure and control. We were dominated in the second half and it was quite disappointing to see us suffocated like that, without really looking like we could have scored a third. I think we settled for 1-2 too early and waited too long to make changes. We were very lucky to escape with a point and Ramsdale deserves all the credit for that.

It’s not a terrible result but because the margins are so fine it’s definitely titled towards City as it stands.

I can’t help but be defeatist now, as I have zero faith that we’ll avoid defeat at the Etihad. Praying for a miracle that they drop some unexpected points somewhere.

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This.
We should have done everything to see the game to half time at 2-0. But no, enter Xhaka being a twat.
We were cruising at one stage.
Massively disappointed with the second half, I blame Arteta for not making changes to stem the tide. We ain't getting anything at the Empty-had.

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Originally Posted by Chippy

This.
We should have done everything to see the game to half time at 2-0. But no, enter Xhaka being a twat.
We were cruising at one stage.
Massively disappointed with the second half, I blame Arteta for not making changes to stem the tide. We ain't getting anything at the Empty-had.

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Correct

West Ham away next followed by Southampton at home.

They’ll have a couple of games in hand on us because of their cup involvement but to all intents and purposes the game at the Etihad is a cup final. That’s presuming we win our next 2 of course, and if we don’t then we have no business winning the league anyway.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

West Ham away next followed by Southampton at home.

They’ll have a couple of games in hand on us because of their cup involvement but to all intents and purposes the game at the Etihad is a cup final. That’s presuming we win our next 2 of course, and if we don’t then we have no business winning the league anyway.

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Yep!

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Originally Posted by 21_GOONER_SALUTE

I am just plain hopeful now, because psychologically, these guys are still pretty weak.

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I don’t think that’s true.
We’ve scored plenty of late goals, got lots of wins from losing positions.
And we responded to The Wobble ™ with 7 straight wins.
We are a lot stronger psychologically and better at dealing with setbacks than we were.

This result could be the 2 points dropped that cost us the title or…it could be the point gained that wins us it. It’s going to be crushing not winning it after how good we’ve been this year, but we are against an absolute juggernaut in City. I’m can’t really fault our efforts this season.

As people know I tend to try to be moderate on here and I have been one of Xhaka's biggest supporters.

But I was disappointed with that result/performance yesterday and I still am now. We were absolutely in control at 0-2 up and we had Liverpool on the ropes. What did we do? - We showed that we lack the maturity to play our game and ignore the shit-housery and absolutely played into their hands. I would have thought that the game last season showed exactly what you don't do at Anfield. You don't give them and their crowd anything to lift their game. What does Xhaka do? He riles the crowd up - for nothing - and the result was their first goal, just before half time.

The second half was a disaster class from our team and manager. All composure went and we simply invited them onto our shaky defence. I'm not going to single Holding out, but he is our 4th choice CB for a reason and was playing with a LB who can't defend and a RB who was giving us a Manure style performance after (an admittedly soft) yellow card. I felt their second goal was inevitable, and they should have beaten us by 2 goals but for a world class keeper performance from Ramsdale.

We had little or no outlet - I can't remember so many attacking pases going astray - and we lacked the composure to profit from 2 or 3 gilt-edged chances to score another. Our mindset was negative, and we switched to survival mode - something epitomosed by Arteta's decision to put on that Herman Munster looking guy in place of Odegard - one of our best ball retainers - at a time when our MF seemed as though it had disappeared anyway. Zin should have been subbed long before he gifted them their second.

I get that Anfield is a difficult place to go to, but we were in total control FFS and we fucked it up. This was not a performance (for 50 minutes) that suggests we have what it takes to prevent Citeh from winning the title, and the doubts about our team's ability to cope with real pressure loom large. If ever a point felt like a loss it was this game, for me. I have lost faith that we will take the title and that feels depressing this morning.

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Originally Posted by IBK

As people know I tend to try to be moderate on here and I have been one of Xhaka's biggest supporters.

But I was disappointed with that result/performance yesterday and I still am now. We were absolutely in control at 0-2 up and we had Liverpool on the ropes. What did we do? - We showed that we lack the maturity to play our game and ignore the shit-housery and absolutely played into their hands. I would have thought that the game last season showed exactly what you don't do at Anfield. You don't give them and their crowd anything to lift their game. What does Xhaka do? He riles the crowd up - for nothing - and the result was their first goal, just before half time.

The second half was a disaster class from our team and manager. All composure went and we simply invited them onto our shaky defence. I'm not going to single Holding out, but he is our 4th choice CB for a reason and was playing with a LB who can't defend and a RB who was giving us a Manure style performance after (an admittedly soft) yellow card. I felt their second goal was inevitable, and they should have beaten us by 2 goals but for a world class keeper performance from Ramsdale.

We had little or no outlet - I can't remember so many attacking pases going astray - and we lacked the composure to profit from 2 or 3 gilt-edged chances to score another. Our mindset was negative, and we switched to survival mode - something epitomosed by Arteta's decision to put on that Herman Munster looking guy in place of Odegard - one of our best ball retainers - at a time when our MF seemed as though it had disappeared anyway. Zin should have been subbed long before he gifted them their second.

I get that Anfield is a difficult place to go to, but we were in total control FFS and we fucked it up. This was not a performance (for 50 minutes) that suggests we have what it takes to prevent Citeh from winning the title, and the doubts about our team's ability to cope with real pressure loom large. If ever a point felt like a loss it was this game, for me. I have lost faith that we will take the title and that feels depressing this morning.

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Whilst I agree with you in regards to our second half performance I think this idea that Xhaka reacting to Alexander-Arnold was the turning point without which they couldn’t have come back into the game is for the birds.

It’s a lovely talking point for sky sports commentators but the reality is…Liverpool at any point could have upped their game and turned the screw.

Not having our best defensive options available didnt help and this is why I was not confident of getting a result yesterday.

Yes the players did wilt under pressure, but we haven’t suddenly found a magical way to play out of trouble when we get pushed back

The fact is it’s not the first time we’ve been penned in and couldn’t find a way out away from home….Crystal Palace, Leeds, Leicester…even against Spurs in the second half it was all them and I think we had maybe one or two half chances on the counter. Arguably even against Brighton our backs were against the wall for the last twenty minutes or so and only a marginal offside call stopped them making it 4-3

We have gone for it twice away from home, once losing (against United) and once winning (against Villa)

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Originally Posted by Letters

I don’t think that’s true.
We’ve scored plenty of late goals, got lots of wins from losing positions.
And we responded to The Wobble ™ with 7 straight wins.
We are a lot stronger psychologically and better at dealing with setbacks than we were.

This result could be the 2 points dropped that cost us the title or…it could be the point gained that wins us it. It’s going to be crushing not winning it after how good we’ve been this year, but we are against an absolute juggernaut in City. I’m can’t really fault our efforts this season.

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Hopefully, City will be deducted points for blatant FFP avoidance :pray:

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

Whilst I agree with you in regards to our second half performance I think this idea that Xhaka reacting to Alexander-Arnold was the turning point without which they couldn’t have come back into the game is for the birds.

It’s a lovely talking point for sky sports commentators but the reality is…Liverpool at any point could have upped their game and turned the screw.

Not having our best defensive options available didnt help and this is why I was not confident of getting a result yesterday.

Yes the players did wilt under pressure, but we haven’t suddenly found a magical way to play out of trouble when we get pushed back

The fact is it’s not the first time we’ve been penned in and couldn’t find a way out away from home….Crystal Palace, Leeds, Leicester…even against Spurs in the second half it was all them and I think we had maybe one or two half chances on the counter. Arguably even against Brighton our backs were against the wall for the last twenty minutes or so and only a marginal offside call stopped them making it 4-3

We have gone for it twice away from home, once losing (against United) and once winning (against Villa)

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I agree with your point that we have ridden our luck in second halves a few times this season, but I still think that the Xhaka incident was key. This isn't following the press - I was watching the game with a few Gooners and we all said it in real time. Before Xhaka's over reaction we were saying that it was embarrassing because you could hear the tannoy (and the away fans) - so much for the famous Anfield atmosphere. After it, the crowd woke up, and it definitely gave Liverpool's players a lift. They are a team - as their extraordinary home record compared to away shows this season, that feeds off the atmosphere. This was Klopp's Cup Final and his 'heavy metal' playing style needs a spark. We gave them this - just like Arteta did last season. Had we gone in at the break 0-2 up then the crowd would have started the second half nervy and subdued - their goal came at the worst time.

Arteta seems to agree with me.

Beyond that, however, we showed that we don't have the composure to deal with shit housery. Liverpool already had an excrable ref on their team. The likes of TAA; Robertson and Firmino are masters at riling and disrupting opposition players. Xhaka is supposed to be a leader in this team, and did the wrong thing in reacting and reverting to type. Our ineffectual MF was severely hampered by his yellow card - and IMHO this contributed to it fading almost into non-existance in the second half - so much so that Klopp took one of theirs off to go with a more attacking formation. Same went for Ben White - a yellow stifling performance - albeit that his was unmerited.

Klopp - who let's face it had little to play for - wanted this to be a rabble rousing cup final. And we gave him exactly what he wanted.

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Originally Posted by IBK

I agree with your point that we have ridden our luck in second halves a few times this season, but I still think that the Xhaka incident was key. This isn't following the press - I was watching the game with a few Gooners and we all said it in real time. Before Xhaka's over reaction we were saying that it was embarrassing because you could hear the tannoy (and the away fans) - so much for the famous Anfield atmosphere. After it, the crowd woke up, and it definitely gave Liverpool's players a lift. They are a team - as their extraordinary home record compared to away shows this season, that feeds off the atmosphere. This was Klopp's Cup Final and his 'heavy metal' playing style needs a spark. We gave them this - just like Arteta did last season. Had we gone in at the break 0-2 up then the crowd would have started the second half nervy and subdued - their goal came at the worst time.

Arteta seems to agree with me.

Beyond that, however, we showed that we don't have the composure to deal with shit housery. Liverpool already had an excrable ref on their team. The likes of TAA; Robertson and Firmino are masters at riling and disrupting opposition players. Xhaka is supposed to be a leader in this team, and did the wrong thing in reacting and reverting to type. Our ineffectual MF was severely hampered by his yellow card - and IMHO this contributed to it fading almost into non-existance in the second half - so much so that Klopp took one of theirs off to go with a more attacking formation. Same went for Ben White - a yellow stifling performance - albeit that his was unmerited.

Klopp - who let's face it had little to play for - wanted this to be a rabble rousing cup final. And we gave him exactly what he wanted.

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This

And who has picked Xhaka week in week out despite knowing his temperament?

Arteta

We should have got rid of Xhaka two summers ago, last season his ill discipline cost ua a CL place, this time it's cost us the title

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Originally Posted by IBK

I agree with your point that we have ridden our luck in second halves a few times this season, but I still think that the Xhaka incident was key. This isn't following the press - I was watching the game with a few Gooners and we all said it in real time. Before Xhaka's over reaction we were saying that it was embarrassing because you could hear the tannoy (and the away fans) - so much for the famous Anfield atmosphere. After it, the crowd woke up, and it definitely gave Liverpool's players a lift. They are a team - as their extraordinary home record compared to away shows this season, that feeds off the atmosphere. This was Klopp's Cup Final and his 'heavy metal' playing style needs a spark. We gave them this - just like Arteta did last season. Had we gone in at the break 0-2 up then the crowd would have started the second half nervy and subdued - their goal came at the worst time.

Arteta seems to agree with me.

Beyond that, however, we showed that we don't have the composure to deal with shit housery. Liverpool already had an excrable ref on their team. The likes of TAA; Robertson and Firmino are masters at riling and disrupting opposition players. Xhaka is supposed to be a leader in this team, and did the wrong thing in reacting and reverting to type. Our ineffectual MF was severely hampered by his yellow card - and IMHO this contributed to it fading almost into non-existance in the second half - so much so that Klopp took one of theirs off to go with a more attacking formation. Same went for Ben White - a yellow stifling performance - albeit that his was unmerited.

Klopp - who let's face it had little to play for - wanted this to be a rabble rousing cup final. And we gave him exactly what he wanted.

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The point I’m making is that if it hadn’t been that it would have been something else

The idea that Liverpool would have been dormant for 90 minutes and the crowd would have stayed docile for that time is a way of comforting ourselves that somehow we could have won this game easily. The fact is that even before that incident they’d created chances…Robertson should have done better when through on goal, and albeit a harsh booking White was struggling to deal with Jota.

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

The point I’m making is that if it hadn’t been that it would have been something else

The idea that Liverpool would have been dormant for 90 minutes and the crowd would have stayed docile for that time is a way of comforting ourselves that somehow we could have won this game easily. The fact is that even before that incident they’d created chances…Robertson should have done better when through on goal, and albeit a harsh booking White was struggling to deal with Jota.

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Yes there would undoubtedly have been something else to lift them...but the timing of their goal was key. We were pretty much penned back from there on in. Who knows - if they hadn't scored just before half time we might have scored another after that and any revival would have been moot. Liverpool's players were clearly looking for something to provide a spark and we were naive to play into this.

So we could lose to City, win all the other games and still not win the league. That would mean since the 1-3 defeat to City, we could conceivably take 43 points out of 48 and still miss out.

It’s ridiculous but these are the margins we’re dealing with. Starting to feel how Liverpool fans must have felt in 2019 and 2022.

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Originally Posted by IBK

Yes there would undoubtedly have been something else to lift them...but the timing of their goal was key. We were pretty much penned back from there on in. Who knows - if they hadn't scored just before half time we might have scored another after that and any revival would have been moot. Liverpool's players were clearly looking for something to provide a spark and we were naive to play into this.

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Quite possibly but it’s still pretty thin by my reckoning to hinge the result of the game on one largely peripheral incident. The pressure from the home side would have come at some point, and it’s worth bearing in mind that we relied on Ramsdale to provide a couple of world class saves to get a point. On one hand you can say we were too passive, but I think especially with the defence we had we could have been opened up if we had been too expansive.

We’ve done to other sides exactly what was done to us yesterday, we beat United at home because we penned them back and they couldn’t get out. To a degree we did it to Liverpool at home, we don’t have the players of a team like City where we can just soak up that pressure and break.

As for Xhaka himself, you’ll get no argument from me that we should get rid…I would have played Jorginho yesterday because despite how slow he is, actually as a passer of the ball he is unrivalled and he could have been a player to set us away on the counter.

For me not bringing him on, combined with taking Odegaard off for a centre back was far more pivotal to them getting a point.

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

So we could lose to City, win all the other games and still not win the league. That would mean since the 1-3 defeat to City, we could conceivably take 43 points out of 48 and still miss out.

It’s ridiculous but these are the margins we’re dealing with. Starting to feel how Liverpool fans must have felt in 2019 and 2022.

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That’s it exactly. This is why I’ve never felt at all confident that we’d win the league this season

Our points total has been very impressive, Partey, Saka, Martinelli, Odegaard and Saliba have been exceptional. But if you look at the last few seasons….City have won four out of the last five titles and Liverpool got to 99 points to win that (and it helped that City had an off season…which they don’t appear to have had this time around).

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Originally Posted by 21_GOONER_SALUTE

Also, I think this was the poorest I have seen Saka in ages.

He was utterly useless in the first half, but what got to me most was his lack of tracking back and helping out

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Well, praise the fuckin Lord. Someone else has seen it.

Hopefully now you have, you'll notice it regularly because I can assure you, this may have been the first time you've noticed it but it's all the fuckin time.

I have never, ever, seen a player absolved of scrutiny the way Saka is. He was a disgrace again yesterday, directly responsible for their first as he just mosied around not tracking his runner, yet people are on here giving him a 7 :haha:

The blind favoritism is mental.

Saka, Xhaka and White were utterly appalling yesterday. Zinchenko too in the second half. Holding was fine. Great I'm the first half but dipped in the second. Ramsdale, Partey and Martinelli were excellent. Gabriel was ok but at fault for their first too.

Worst of all was Arteta though. Taking Odegaard and Jesus off on 79 minutes was ridiculous and it was inevitable they'd score. Despite their dominance they didn't look that dangerous (other than a soft penalty) but that last 10 minutes, when we gave up any intention of retaining the ball/giving an outlet was embarrassing.

How can you expect the players to stand up and be counted when the manager so blatantly bottles it?

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Originally Posted by mandela8

Well, praise the fuckin Lord. Someone else has seen it.

Hopefully now you have, you'll notice it regularly because I can assure you, this may have been the first time you've noticed it but it's all the fuckin time.

I have never, ever, seen a player absolved of scrutiny the way Saka is. He was a disgrace again yesterday, directly responsible for their first as he just mosied around not tracking his runner, yet people are on here giving him a 7 :haha:

The blind favoritism is mental.

Saka, Xhaka and White were utterly appalling yesterday. Zinchenko too in the second half. Holding was fine. Great I'm the first half but dipped in the second. Ramsdale, Partey and Martinelli were excellent. Gabriel was ok but at fault for their first too.

Worst of all was Arteta though. Taking Odegaard and Jesus off on 79 minutes was ridiculous and it was inevitable they'd score. Despite their dominance they didn't look that dangerous (other than a soft penalty) but that last 10 minutes, when we gave up any intention of retaining the ball/giving an outlet was embarrassing.

How can you expect the players to stand up and be counted when the manager so blatantly bottles it?

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Football writers, pundits, fans all rate Saka highly but one Scottish bell end contrarian doesn’t rate him so that makes the difference.

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

Football writers, pundits, fans all rate Saka highly but one Scottish bell end contrarian doesn’t rate him so that makes the difference.

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:haha::haha:

He's right in what he says about most of the other players though and also about Arteta bottling it

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Originally Posted by Mac76

He's right in what he says about most of the other players though and also about Arteta bottling it

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That’s why I only referenced the Saka thing. A lot of the time his comments are usually reasonable but he’s got a hate boner for Saka which is patently ridiculous. The thing is he accuses us of bias, but the thing is if I think Saka hasn’t played well I will say so and there are times where he doesn’t play well. But more often than not there isn’t a player out there who torments left backs more than him….if you were being ultra critical he often tries to wait too long to get the ball on his favoured foot but some of the goals he scores and the way he’s menaced defences….whilst everyone is entitled to an opinion it’s a fucking stupid one.
Martinelli is probably my favourite Arsenal player presently and I’d say he has far more of a tendency to go missing in games than Saka does.

Yeah that's something we can agree on ;) Martinelli is brilliant though reliant on Xhaka and Zin to give him the ball

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Originally Posted by Mac76

Yeah that's something we can agree on ;) Martinelli is brilliant though reliant on Xhaka and Zin to give him the ball

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Isn't that what MF are supposed to do?

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Originally Posted by IBK

Isn't that what MF are supposed to do?

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Yes but the trouble is they don't always...

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Originally Posted by IBK

As people know I tend to try to be moderate on here and I have been one of Xhaka's biggest supporters.

But I was disappointed with that result/performance yesterday and I still am now. We were absolutely in control at 0-2 up and we had Liverpool on the ropes. What did we do? - We showed that we lack the maturity to play our game and ignore the shit-housery and absolutely played into their hands. I would have thought that the game last season showed exactly what you don't do at Anfield. You don't give them and their crowd anything to lift their game. What does Xhaka do? He riles the crowd up - for nothing - and the result was their first goal, just before half time.

The second half was a disaster class from our team and manager. All composure went and we simply invited them onto our shaky defence. I'm not going to single Holding out, but he is our 4th choice CB for a reason and was playing with a LB who can't defend and a RB who was giving us a Manure style performance after (an admittedly soft) yellow card. I felt their second goal was inevitable, and they should have beaten us by 2 goals but for a world class keeper performance from Ramsdale.

We had little or no outlet - I can't remember so many attacking pases going astray - and we lacked the composure to profit from 2 or 3 gilt-edged chances to score another. Our mindset was negative, and we switched to survival mode - something epitomosed by Arteta's decision to put on that Herman Munster looking guy in place of Odegard - one of our best ball retainers - at a time when our MF seemed as though it had disappeared anyway. Zin should have been subbed long before he gifted them their second.

I get that Anfield is a difficult place to go to, but we were in total control FFS and we fucked it up. This was not a performance (for 50 minutes) that suggests we have what it takes to prevent Citeh from winning the title, and the doubts about our team's ability to cope with real pressure loom large. If ever a point felt like a loss it was this game, for me. I have lost faith that we will take the title and that feels depressing this morning.

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I agree the Xhaka moment was a turning point, but would add the crowd had more influence on the ref than anything else. That ref was shit scared of the crowd. Arnold should have seen red for repeated offences as should that brick shithouse of a centre back that went through more tackles studs up than I've seen in a while. But the ref was never going to apply the rules evenly at Anfield because that hasn't happened in five decades and wasn't going to start in this match. Xhaka was kicked up and down the pitch with zero consequences for the offenders and eventually he snapped. He shouldn't have. But it's understandable. Liverpool got back into the game by applying tactics that require the ref to play along, and he did. Good for them, it worked out. You could also say Xhaka was the only guy out there who was prepared to fight fire with fire, silly on this occasion because it was Anfield, but it will be needed in the run-in - from all the players, not just one of them.

Like Partey and Odegard for instance. If you want to find the main fault behind the toothless second half then you don't need further. Partey is a master at marking dead space, busy doing nothing. And no matter how difficult the task, he'll always find the back pass. Odegard thinks he's a better player than he actually is and it was fortune his dog shit contribution didn't wreck one of the goals. These two need to get stuck in, like Xhaka, and start pulling their weight. Right now they are both taking a free ride and in the process wasting two players who can genuinely turn a game, Saka and Martinelli. The latter has improved so much since I saw him at the start of the season. A better midfield could take advantage.

Xhaka is the best in there at the moment. But true, he's also a liability from time to time. But far from being the only one.