Basically what NQ and I were saying yesterday.
Arteta is a Rookie and we will be also rans at best.
Arteta out.
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Basically what NQ and I were saying yesterday.
Arteta is a Rookie and we will be also rans at best.
Arteta out.
Ref 1- Arsenal 0
After that, it’s naivety…..and Balding has a lot to answer for. He set himself up for that, and you have to question the manager as to why they wern’t preped to a avoid the bear trap.
Shit ref, naive team
Don't know what to say, really. Last night was disappointing, yes, but Arteta out? We are still 4th in the EPL, in front of Sp*rs. Arteta is a rookie, and rookies make mistakes - including IMO our set up last night. I can see that he wanted to trust a team that has won us 4 in a row - including against 3 top 7 teams - but, like Liverpool before us - he underestimated the task of keeping Son quiet. That said, the penalty was nonsense and the sending off f*cked our game plan, so we will never know what the result would have been otherwise.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chippy
I'm pleased that the club will be a bit more measured than this in supportig the mamager's project even if we play Europa rather than CL football next season.
as soon as i saw the lineup with an unchanged back four i knew it woud be a struggle - he should have gone to a back five and preferably left out Cedric altogether or at least swap the FBs over so it was Tomi against Son
got to say though, while i am a Holding fan generally, he really did act like a lunatic last night
We really have to stop losing our shit over every bad result (although I must admit after we lost those 3 in a row I did have a bit of a hissy fit).
We're a young side with a young manager. They'll make mistakes although it does sound like a couple of refereeing decisions went against us last night and that changed the game. With 2 games to go we're in the conversation for top 4 - it's actually in our hands. That's clearly a step up from anything we've seen over the last few seasons. If we miss out then that will be disappointing, but how realistic was Top 4 this season? The top 3 were pretty much nailed on at the start of the season and that only leaves one place. We might yet get it. I might change my view if we lose the last 2, but right now there seems to be more shape and purpose about the team. I'm not sure how far Arteta but I still think he's earned the right to try. Getting a new manager in now would just take us backwards.
i agree but they must give him a firm target for next seaon and if he doesn't get there he goesQuote:
Originally Posted by Letters
IDK about the refereeing decisons and I'm not about to watch any highlghts to find out, but i did think the first pel was soft, I'm no fan of Cedric but genuinely couldn't see what he'd done
It seems like his target was Europa League qualification, hence the new contract when that was achieved.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac76
But I agree with Gary in the other thread, it's a bit of a nothing tournament and will just add a load of extra games which with our squad is going to be problematic. Although I guess we can rest players in the group games as we'll be playing poor teams.
I haven't seen anything last night, from what I've heard it's one of those "you see them given" ones. And it sounds like Holding was naive and that was the end of that.
Forget about it. Beat Newcastle and all will feel good again.
Plenty of time to go over the season in the summer but for now just have to back the lads and hope for the best. There’s a job to finish and you just pray for some composure to get us over the line.
Spurs will win their last 2 so it really is all on the Newcastle game. Win or bust.
Yeah this. We know what we have to do to finish 4th.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
Right. I quite liked Arteta’s response on the Arsenal website, basically saying that he started preparing for the Newcastle game during the second half, clearly the points had gone so forget it and focus on the next game. That’s all we can do now. It’s in our hands, forget what Spurs are doing let’s just win our games.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
Letters, Can you honestly see us getting maximum points?Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Last night's defeat was double pain because of what was at stake. Deep down, we all know the CL has passed us by.
I’m not confident but then who thought we’d beat Chelsea and West Ham away?Quote:
Originally Posted by Chippy
The injuries worry me. I’m not ready to throw in the towel just yet.
Fair play :good:Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
It's just a pity he didn't prepare better for the Spuds game then, just fielding the side that scraped past Leeds showed a failure to adjust for Spuds and their tactics
His rookieness really showed, as well as the lack of maturity in the team
I don't rate our chances of beating Newcastle - Eddie Howe loves this type of game and he's already turned St Jimmy's Park into a fortress
...and what's worse is that spuds will trash burnley tomorrow which means we'll be playing catchup at Newcastle
of course if the NLD had been a hard-fought contest instead of a walkover then we might have been able to call the extra day an advantage, but all it achieved was to give spuds a head of steam
You have to wonder how a manager and a team that can't figure out the spuds would go to any lengths to win such a vital game will fare in a European competition packed with teams that will go to any lengths to win, most of them considerably superior to a very average gang of spuds.
These are the tests the club has failed at for a decade. When it really matters to the fans, the club lets them down. There's not a single spine in the whole organisation. If that match against the chavs had been the decider for CL qualification, Arsenal would have lost it handsomely. As it was, they did what they always do. Pull back from the brink at the last moment, so they don't fall from longstanding mediocrity and into the abyss. But that's where they live now, at the edge of a pit, circling a drain, aspiring to be also-rans. There's not a single sign this club is in control of its own destiny. There's no control, no smarts, no ability to dig deep at the crucial moments. Progress is not a measure of avoiding failure, it's a measure of proceeding in a controlled manner towards a desired outcome. Does Arsenal actually desire anything, other than continued existence there or thereabouts?
Who on here wouldn’t have taken CL qualification being in our hands with 2 games left at the start of the season?
Literally won the FA Cup 4 times in the last decade.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
You sneer about the importance of Top 4 (and I’m with you, although it is a sad reality of the modern game), but you’re dismissing 4 actual trophies? And while the FA Cup doesn’t have the prestige it once did, don’t pretend you don’t care about it - I remember your reaction when we won the first one.
I didn’t see the game on Thursday but by all accounts we were undone by a soft penalty and Holding losing his head. It was a bad result but things like that affect results and you can’t legislate for them. I’m more interested now in how we react. It’s still in our hands. We are quite the butterfingers but at times this lot have been grinding out results this year - certainly lot better than last year.
We are a work in progress but for the first time in years it does feel like there has been some progress. This is a group of players I feel I can get behind more than I have for years.
Ask Liverpool or City if they'd swap their last few seasons for FA Cup wins. It's always good to win a cup. But for a club like Arsenal, if that's the summit then you have a major problem. We used to win the cup while challenging for the title and battling it out on a serious level in the CL. Both the latter are now so far out of reach it will take a generation to, perhaps, claw back to sufficient levels. Not a single sign of it happening in the last 10 years. Unless you cunt qualifying for a competition you can't compete in as anything other than making up the numbers.
There's always an excuse on hand for the big hurdles and the dead horse. A whole stream of excuses. A decade of them.
Small team mentality is killing this club after every failure to compete you always find fans that will pull out the FA cup wins in the last decade. No one who wants to win the CL gives a toss about FA cup wins, now or ever.
We are not Everton, Newcastle or Leicester.
Why? The answer would be obvious. But you said “when it really matters to the fans, the club lets them down.” That has certainly been true too often, but it hasn’t always been the case.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
You’re right, it shouldn’t be the limit of our ambitions but that’s a different debate.
And you’re right, we are so far away from the biggest prizes now - but that’s why the progress we’ve made is to be welcomed and IMO Arteta needs to be given time to continue that. If the progress doesn’t continue then fine, get rid. But you can’t simultaneously grumble at how far we are away from the very top teams and grumble that we aren’t closer this season. How could we be given where we’ve been? How much progress can you reasonably expect in one season? Last year we weren’t even in the conversation for Top 4, this year it’s in our hands with 2 games left. If we balls it up (as admittedly seems likely) then it does call into question how much progress we have really made. But there have been undoubtedly been some positive signs this season.
Just think, if Liverpool win the FA Cup in the next 30 mins, all they need to do is win it 3 times more to be up to our level! Scary.
I'm not talking about a single season. I'm talking about the repeating patterns through so many seasons. And the continued lack of authority in anything this club does, either on or off the pitch. I would say this is a random club. Toss a coin. Fans get three favourable coin tosses in a row and we're the best thing since sliced bread. Then the "luck" changes (ref cheats, somebody gets injured, somebody dives, excuses, excuses) and the manager needs to be sacked. As if the manager has anything to do with the nothingness that is so entirely representative of this (used to be) football club.
Of course, you can ignore everything that went before and just go with the moment. That's actually more fun than reality.
Did you see how Klopp, the Liverpool players and fans reacted today at the end?Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
Y’know, Liverpool the CL finalists.
You should neither ignore it nor dwell on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
The only relevant questions from where we are right now are whether we heading in the right direction, are we doing so fast enough and is Arteta the right person to take us back to the top.
My answers to those questions so far are yes, yes realistically and probably not but I’m willing to give him a chance for now. Arteta isn’t Wenger, he’s not weighed down by all that baggage. If he’s not doing then fine, get rid. I question how far any manager can take us given our ownership but that’s a different discussion.
So you expect them to get to the final and not try their best. Again as ever you miss the point. Keep clutching those FA cups and telling Pool fans how we are far ahead of them in wins.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Where did you get that from?Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
You said “No one who wants to win the CL gives a toss about FA cup wins, now or ever.”
The reaction from Klopp, the Liverpool players and fans today says different.
And I’m not telling Liverpool fans anything.
They’re light years ahead of us, clearly.
But what were the reasonable expectations for us this season?
Your baseline shouldn’t be The Invincibles. It would be nice to get to that level again but we are nowhere near that now. The only reasonable basis for comparison is last season. After that season what were you expecting this year, a title challenge?
Ultimately I want Arsenal to be competing for the biggest prizes, of course I do. But you’re not going to bridge the gap between us and the top teams in one season given where we started from. We are clearly a work in progress, but I do think there’s been some progress. If that doesn’t continue next year then fine, let’s try again with someone else.
:gp:Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Reasonable expectations? I can think of one. Learn how to pass the ball forwards (like Liverpool).Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Good postQuote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I get that from you because as I have said many times you were there all along while your Idol was in charge justifying how we we are doing ok while slipping down the pecking order and yes here you are again rationalising how were are 8 years behind teams we used to look down on or at least eye to eye. No one in a Man U forum will be making the platitudes about losing like you do. Everyone at the start of each season starts from the same position but at Arsenal by Xmas we have only reasonable expectations. Winners plan to win, losers line up excuses. Everything about you is excuses and that goes for your loyal brain dead followers too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
I do think we’ve got better at that actually.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Did you see the West Ham game? We moved the ball forwards really well at times. We can’t finish for toffees and the lack of a top striker is a clear gap. But I actually think there’s a lot more purpose about this lot than in the later Wenger years where it was all sideways and backwards.
What do you mean rationalising? I’m just saying we are miles behind the top 2.Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
Are you disagreeing? How we got here is irrelevant.
Given where we were last season what did you expect this season?
They will. And thanks to Harry **** and VAR awarding the penalty today, we are probably buggered now. 😔Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
But, but....... it was against Spurs !?!>?! !?!?:wacko::wacko::doh::thumbsdown::sarcy::sulk:<_ <:censored::crying::crying:Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters