WORLD CUP FINAL: France v Croatia, 4pm BST, BBC and ITV

I think they should count and there's no denying he took them well, but it's not the same as a goal form open play.
It does massively water down the achievement of winning the golden boot.
I even had a Spurs fan friend admit Kane didn't have a great tournament, he was playing so deep, I'm not sure why.

Kane was average at best, it's a very meaningless golden boot and I bet there's a part of him that is slightly embarrassed about it as well. The goals against Tunisia were pretty much as good as it got for him in the tournament.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Letters

I think they should count and there's no denying he took them well, but it's not the same as a goal form open play.
It does massively water down the achievement of winning the golden boot.
I even had a Spurs fan friend admit Kane didn't have a great tournament, he was playing so deep, I'm not sure why.

---

If in golden boot terms we call a goal a 'point' then i think at best penalties should be half a point.

also i think whether the goal was intentional should count - that goal off kane's arse was totally random and it shouldn't be counted towards a prize for scoring goals, as that is there to reward skill

again at best maybe give a 'half-point' as he was in the box in an attacking position which is something

so put that together and Kane's total would have been 4 points, which would be a far better reflection although arguably still a little flattering...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Özim

France have so much quality, look at some of the players they have, yes Mbappe is outstanding but they also have Griezmann, Kante, Pogba, Varane, Mendy, Matuidi, Dembele, Lemar, Fekir, Loris ignoring Payet who was injured and the others who weren't picked!

Doesn't matter when the goal threat came, a game is 90 minutes, France came out in the 2nd half and controlled the game and won it fairly easily in the end, they missed a 2-3 chances they were casual with that you'd expect them to put away if they weren't cruising as well, Croatia barely had a sniff in the 2nd half.

England were never going to win it, they might have got to the final because of the favourable draw but in the final they would have lost, everyone knew the winner would come from the other side of the draw.

Croatia had a good run, worked hard and did well to get to the final, for me though the game against England showed that whilst they're a good side they aren't a top side, they have a few standout players (all into or almost into their 30s) but lack a real goal threat.

---

you're still basically saying that a team that has the best players deserves to get unfair decisions in their favour because they're just the best team.

so if it had been the other way around and Croatia had had the lucky breaks you're saying it wouldn't have been fair for them to have won, but it's ok for France because they're the 'better team' ?

it still comes down to whether you believe in the whole point of a tournament, i.e. teams being able to overform to upset the odds, or whether you think we should just have a computer decide how everyoen will finish beforehand...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mac76

you're still basically saying that a team that has the best players deserves to get unfair decisions in their favour because they're just the best team.

so if it had been the other way around and Croatia had had the lucky breaks you're saying it wouldn't have been fair for them to have won, but it's ok for France because they're the 'better team' ?

it still comes down to whether you believe in the whole point of a tournament, i.e. teams being able to overform to upset the odds, or whether you think we should just have a computer decide how everyoen will finish beforehand...

---

Croatia were unlucky for the penalty decision. The freekick decision too, but you can't ignore the bad defending that led to the goal. That was of their own making. The unfortunate part comes down to the ref having to be conned into a giving a freekick to that piece of shit. But how can you ignore the piss poor defending and set up?

Also, on the few occasions Croatia broke down the flanks and had a good opportunity to play a dangerous cross, they over hit it. This happened two or three times from what I recall. That's another thing you're missing out. They weren't the best team. Possession means nothing. Arsenal should know that more than anyone else.

I think France had a perfectly balanced team to play the way they did. They looked to hit teams on the counter. When you have a really good defence and a tackling beast like Kante in the side, passers and pace, why set yourself up any other way? Argentina, Spain and Germany went out because they tried to dominate possession. It was their downfall.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mac76

you're still basically saying that a team that has the best players deserves to get unfair decisions in their favour because they're just the best team.

so if it had been the other way around and Croatia had had the lucky breaks you're saying it wouldn't have been fair for them to have won, but it's ok for France because they're the 'better team' ?

it still comes down to whether you believe in the whole point of a tournament, i.e. teams being able to overform to upset the odds, or whether you think we should just have a computer decide how everyoen will finish beforehand...

---

Im not saying that at all, I'm saying the better side won, France created more chances and blew them away in the 2nd half, Croatia were never going to win that game, even if they didn't get the free kick and didn't get the penalty pretty sure they would have won, as I said Croatia barely created a chance in the 2nd half, the only goal they got was a freebie from Loris when France were cruising.

They had 45 minutes to equalise, instead they proceeded to conceded 2 more goals (should have been 4 with the sitters that were missed).

I believe teams should be able to upset the odds, but on merit, Mexico did, South Korea did, Russia did, Japan almost did etc Croatia didn't deserve to and didn't, they didn't even look close.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Özim

Im not saying that at all, I'm saying the better side won, France created more chances and blew them away in the 2nd half, Croatia were never going to win that game, even if they didn't get the free kick and didn't get the penalty pretty sure they would have won, as I said Croatia barely created a chance in the 2nd half, the only goal they got was a freebie from Loris when France were cruising.

They had 45 minutes to equalise, instead they proceeded to conceded 2 more goals (should have been 4 with the sitters that were missed).

I believe teams should be able to upset the odds, but on merit, Mexico did, South Korea did, Russia did, Japan almost did etc Croatia didn't deserve to and didn't, they didn't even look close.

---

Ok, thanks for sticking with it, i don't totally agree still but i think the truth is maybe halfway between what we're both saying

I still think that ref totally ruined the game and I for one felt i'd wasted my time on it - as far as i'm concerned, whether or not France deserved to win, fair play lost

Love the story that’s come out about Kante being too shy to celebrate with the trophy while his teammates lapped it up. :lol:

Wish we had discovered him before he went to Leicester.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

Love the story that’s come out about Kante being too shy to celebrate with the trophy while his teammates lapped it up. :lol:

Wish we had discovered him before he went to Leicester.

---

Yep Giroud & Kante are the two French lads whose success I can really admire given that they've both had to really work for it. Starting right at the bottom of the lower leagues, trying to get noticed and slowly progressing up the ladder. Not having the benefits of being at a top club from a young age and getting coaching & development at their elite academies under the tutelage of world class coaches. A shonenesque story of hard work and never giving up on your dreams.

Unsurprisingly it's probably the reason why they're both incredibly humble & grounded individuals (seen in the above story) which is refreshing as most modern day top-level footballers are seen as over-egotistical fucks with incredible wealth & material possession heaped on them at a young age.