Originally Posted by
Letters
I did. You've said you don't believe in government. So without that structure who builds the roads and maintains them and other infrastructure?
I remember you saying you had answers to all that, I don't remember you ever elaborating. If you want to call me a liar about that then fine, I guess.
We can go round the "am not!", "are too!" loop if you like but it's a waste of both of our times.
If the answer is that I've misrepresented your position then fine, you could say that and clarify what your actual position is. I'm trying to understand more about your position. The trouble is you tend to be vague about it, and you insist on thinking I have some ulterior motive or malicious intent. I don't know how to help you with that. But you do seem to think that of a lot of people who disagree with you about stuff, and anyone in a position of power. (I don't regard my IIP as the latter, for the record)
That was a different conversation and of course I remember the post. But what's the other alternative?
You live in a country. That country has a society. And as you noted, if you moved to a different country you'd be living in a different society. Because pretty much every country has one because generally when a complex infrastructure is required some structure is required to create it. As I've said, if you have an alternative then let's hear it.
And you're right, participation isn't optional. But I don't know how, in practice, you can disentangle yourself from a complex and integrated society.
It's simply the way you consistently come across. You have displayed it throughout this post, even in this snippet accusing me of "carefully constructing" a lie.
What's that if not a paranoid assertion? Your evidence that I'm a liar is entirely you thinking I'm a liar. I don't know what I'm supposed to do with that.
I think the notion of society is important and has provided all the comforts we enjoy. I don't think it's "important" to shoot you down - I have actively suggested ways you could take steps towards the liberty I think you want. But I think in practice completely disconnecting from society is basically impossible in most countries. I don't have the ability to fend for myself and nor do you. Yes, I need all the infrastructure to lead my life and I can't think of a better way of creating and maintaining it than the one we have - or something similar, I'm not saying there is no room for improvement but pretty much every country has solved this need the same way.
I don't think millions would want it - although I'm still not clear what the "it" is. OK, you want to be left alone. But what does that mean in practice?
You did elaborate a bit below so let's have a look at that.
OK, so now we're getting somewhere. So you favour an opt in system? You want to send your child to school then you pay, right? Or not if you don't want to.
And if you do pay then that pays for the teachers and the buildings and so on.
You want medical treatment then you pay. And that pays for the hospitals and doctors?
Is that how this would work?
But that doesn't work, does it? Because non parents wouldn't want to pay for schools, not every parent can pay for their child's schooling and most people don't have the skills to home school.
Not everyone can afford to pay for medical care, especially if you lost the lottery of life and happen to have a serious condition which requires a lot of treatment.
So my "problem with that" is it doesn't work. Unless you're suggesting that most people stay in the society and you uniquely opt in to the bits you want.
Why do you get that option? That doesn't seem very fair.
But if that was an option for everyone and "millions of people" did choose to do it then I reckon the whole thing would fall apart. And maybe you think that's a good thing.
But personally I'd rather that I call 999 and someone picks up. I'd rather that trained professionals teach my child rather than me trying to.
The infrastructure which you don't want provides all your comforts, and mine. I don't see how that happens unless people all pay in to "a pot" and there is some form of government which spends that money on the infrastructure.
And sure, they spend money in stupid ways - that stupid NHS IT system which cost billions and never worked, Boris's vanity projects (although for the record I think his "garden bridge" idea was pretty cool). So it's not perfect by any means, but I've yet to hear a workable alternative.