General Football Nonsense

[Letters]

You beat me to this post by one minute

Dortmund didn’t hide behind the excuse of how well funded Bayern are…they relentlessly put pressure on Bayern

What utter bullshit.

Bayern have W6 D1 L3 of their last 10.
Dortmund have W6 D3 L1.
They have 70 points after 33 games, we had more than that after 29.
Dortmund’s run has been OK, but they didn’t have anyone chasing them winning every game.
The two situations aren’t even remotely the same.

EDIT: that Dortmund run is identical to our 10 game run before Brighton which was apparently a terrible collapse. Dortmund do it and it’s them putting relentless pressure on Bayern . Dortmund also lost the head to head with Bayern

[HCZ_Reborn]

What utter bullshit.

Bayern have W6 D1 L3 of their last 10.
Dortmund have W6 D3 L1.
They have 70 points after 33 games, we had more than that after 29.
Dortmund’s run has been OK, but they didn’t have anyone chasing them winning every game.
The two situations aren’t even remotely the same.

EDIT: that Dortmund run is identical to our 10 game run before Brighton which was apparently a terrible collapse. Dortmund do it and it’s them putting relentless pressure on Bayern . Dortmund also lost the head to head with Bayern

Dortmund were the chasers, they were the ones who put pressure on Bayern not allowing them to slip up, and have been ready to pounce every time they did. And they are proof that it doesn’t matter how strongly you start a season it’s how you finish that matters.

This is against a Bayern that has won ten titles in a row before this season

And the head to head isn’t important. They kept themselves in the title race by coming from two nil down at home to get a 2-2 draw…and they came back from losing 4-2 at Bayern.

You want to stick your snout up Arteta’s bum hole you go right ahead. But don’t preach to me that he’s anything other than a conceited failure whose borderline autistic character traits meant that our title challenge became little more than a joke in the end. Fuck what City do or don’t do, we are the masters of our own results. The guy instead of chewing the players out for the Brighton game, waxed lyrical about what an amazing season it’s been in an act of figurative Onanism.

Don’t get me wrong I hope we push on next season but don’t see it whilst someone like that is at the helm, and the only positive I can see from what unfortunately I think will be a painful car crash of a season is that he will get chucked out at the end….whilst it won’t be worth seeing us serving more pathetic tripe it will be fun to watch the pinprick let the air out of his ballooned Ego.

Then when he ends up at some other club, I can actually enjoy the mess he makes there

[Letters]

Dortmund were the chasers, they were the ones who put pressure on Bayern not allowing them to slip up,

Dortmund won 8 games in a row in the middle of the season. That did take them from 9 points behind Bayern to level.
So yeah, Dortmund did put the pressure on then but Bayern's run in the same period of W4 D3 L1 isn't exactly stellar.

And since that it's been the exact run I was talking about W6 D3 L1. And the one they lost in that run was the head to head vs Bayern.
That's the "relentless pressure", is it? I was wrong before, our run wasn't quite the same. After we lost to City at home we had an 11 game run of W7 D3 L1, the last of those being the game at the Ethiad. Then we won the next two, so overall it was a run of W9 D3 L1

Dortmund dropped 9 points out of 30 and that took them from level with Bayern to 2 points above them.
We dropped 9 points from 39 and that took us from 3 points ahead of City to 4 points behind.
The difference is that City only dropped 2 points from 39, Bayern dropped 11 points in 30. It wasn't relentless Dortmund pressure, their run was OK but Bayern's was pretty poor for a side with title ambitions.

And they are proof that it doesn’t matter how strongly you start a season it’s how you finish that matters.

Well this is certainly true, but City have now P18 W16 D1 L1. And that includes both head to heads. Now that is relentless pressure. We have certainly lost and drawn stupid games and dropped points we shouldn't have, but I refuse to see 9 points dropped in 39 as a huge failing.

This is against a Bayern that has won ten titles in a row before this season

Their league isn't as competitive as ours. They won it with 77 points last year. That's 86 points if you adjust for a 38 game season and assume the same points per games ratio. That wouldn't have been good enough to win the Premier League in any of the last 6 seasons - there was one year when City "only" got 86, but that was when no-one really pressured them, Utd finished second with 74 points.

And the head to head isn’t important. They kept themselves in the title race by coming from two nil down at home to get a 2-2 draw…and they came back from losing 4-2 at Bayern.

We got a late winner vs Utd, we came back from 2-0 down against Bournemouth, we responded to the defeat vs City at home with 7 wins in a row.

You want to stick your snout up Arteta’s bum hole you go right ahead.

Can you seriously not debate like a grown up? Holy shit, dude
This is nothing to do with Arteta. I haven't mentioned him once. You said that Dortmund "relentlessly put pressure on Bayern". That's bullshit. They did have one good run in the middle of the season but Bayern had a pretty poor one during the same period. And after that good run Dortmund's form in the run in has been no better than ours has been. The main difference is Bayern's run has been worse and we've had City winning every bleedin' game.

And this isn't anything to do with City's funding, that's just the mechanism by which they've got to the level they are at. And that level is surely the best side in Europe. They've won the PL, you'd have to back them in both Cup Finals they're in. They look like they're going to cruise to the Treble - when Utd did theirs they rather stumbled over the line, they were a Bergkamp penalty miss away from us beating them in the Cup and that could well have propelled us to the Double instead of what they did.

The only point I'm highlighting is you characterising a run from Dortmund as "relentless" pressure" and our better run than theirs as an unforgiveable collapse. How you resolve that logical inconsistency I'll leave as an exercise for the reader.

[HCZ_Reborn]

But as you seem loathe to understand what city didn’t or didn’t do was irrelevant. You seem to be making a like for like comparison in terms of point acquisition, I’m saying Dortmund never allowed Bayern to pull away from them.

Plus anyway, since the resumption of the Bundesliga post World Cup, Dortmund have played 19 games - 15 wins, three draws, 1 defeat (to Bayern)

That’s up there with the form City have shown post World Cup

[Letters]

But as you seem loathe to understand what city didn’t or didn’t do was irrelevant.

We were 5 points ahead of them (the 8 points thing is oft quoted to promote the "ArSeNaL cOlLaPsEd" narrative, but it's a bit dishonest as City had a game in hand). So yeah, given that we were ahead of them then if we'd kept winning then we'd stayed ahead of them and would have been champions. Obviously. And there are certainly games where we dropped points we shouldn't have. But City's run of P18 W16 D1 L1 - including them winning both head to heads - is hardly irrelevant. It didn't give us any room for error. I don't think it's a awful failing on our part that we didn't win the title. There were moments this season where I started to think it was possible, but that was predicated on City getting side-tracked by the CL, and they just didn't. I am pissed off that we just gave up and handed it to them on a plate, that's disgraceful and a big black mark against Arteta and the team.

I’m saying Dortmund never allowed Bayern to pull away from them.

You say that. Bayern were 9 points clear before the World Cup. Then when games resumed Dortmund won 8 in a row, after which the teams were level on points.
One could argue that Bayern's run of W4 D3 L1 in the same 8 games isn't exactly stellar.
Since then Dortmund have had a decent enough run but they lost the head to head and have dropped 6 points in the other 9 games. If Bayern had gone on a run anything like City's they'd be champions.
Overall yes, Dortmund have done well. I make it W14 D3 L1 since the world Cup vs Bayern's W10 D4 L4.
But that's where the difference is. Bayern kept slipping up which meant that when Dortmund had the occasional slip and lost the head to head they could still overhaul them. City didn't slip up. The mowed us down in the head to heads and won pretty much every other game which meant any slip by us was taken advantage of. Neither Bayern or Dortmund would win the league against this City team.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Again missing the point, Dortmund won 15 out of 19 games post World Cup, we won 13 out of 23. There’s literally no grounds to say it was all about City because we dropped 25 points in that time. As I keep saying, what city or city didn’t do was irrelevant, you simply don’t win the league by dropping over a third of the points (36%) available to you.

Dortmund dropped 9 (16%)

[Letters]

Again missing the point, Dortmund won 15 out of 19 games post World Cup, we won 13 out of 23. There’s literally no grounds to say it was all about City because we dropped 25 points in that time. As I keep saying, what city or city didn’t do was irrelevant, you simply don’t win the league by dropping over a third of the points (36%) available to you.

Dortmund dropped 9 (16%)

We had 2 big wobbles in the season, there was a run of W0 D1 L2 - that was including the City game at The Emirates. That was a big red flag for me. But we responded pretty well, winning 7 in a row after that.
But then we had the other big wobble which was W0 D3 L1 - the loss being the game at The Ethiad.
That took City from 8 points behind us to 4 in front. So I agree that we did drop too many points and slipped up in games where we shouldn't have.
But at the same time, had City just slipped up once or twice we'd have been right in contention - I'm not counting the last two losses as we've clearly given up. It's not acceptable to do that, but it must be dispiriting when you go on a run of 7 wins in a row and the team chasing you just keep winning too. We always knew we had the harder run in, we always knew that squad depth was a concern for us.

So I think Arsenal's slips letting City in AND City's relentless form seeing them overtake us can both be true.

[HCZ_Reborn]

No we’ve had three big wobbles

Game 20, 21 and 22 one draw and two losses

Game 30, 31, 32 and 33, three draws and one loss


Game 36 and 37. Back to back defeats


Nine games where we registered four draws and five defeats


Games for me we dropped 14 points in unnecessarily


Everton should have got a draw from

Brentford should have won

Man City at home I think even with Partey out we should have got a draw from


West Ham and Southampton we should have won


Brighton and Forest we should have won


Add that to Southampton away from home where we carelessly gave away two points


And United away where we should have got at least a draw and that’s 17 points thrown away


Out of those games only Brighton at home were we comprehensively outplayed and even then it was about poor tactical set up.


Now being generous and say of these 17 points we should have picked up half (because you can’t be perfect throughout the season) that’s pushing City all the way. That’s what I’m driving at, you speak about how we faltered against Brighton because we were mentally affected by City beating Everton in the earlier game…well we had the chance to put that mental pressure on city. And they’d buckled before in the season….the draw against Everton at home, the draw away to Forest…losing away at United after being 1-0 ahead.

They certainly wouldn’t have been able to rest half their first team yesterday.

It’s really not hard, we bottled it…pure and simple…what city did or didn’t do isn’t especially that relevant.

[Mac76]

We should have won against Liverpool too, alhtough equally as things turned out it was only Ram that got us a point there

[Letters]

No we’ve had three big wobbles

I'd say we had 2 wobbles and then we just gave up. Which I'm not defending, but I do think that's an important distinction.

Now being generous and say of these 17 points we should have picked up half (because you can’t be perfect throughout the season) that’s pushing City all the way. That’s what I’m driving at

Right. And I don't disagree with that. I'm disappointed that we haven't pushed them to the last day. That's unacceptable. I'm disappointed that we just gave up after City beat Everton. I kinda get it, but it's not good enough, you run to the line. If they're going to win it then make them win it, don't just hand it to them. That has pissed me off. But I'd also suggest for all the games where we've dropped silly points you can point to games where we've won well, come back from losing positions, won games after City won to put pressure on us. Which is why I don't really by the "bottled it" narrative.

For all our wobbles, points we dropped which we shouldn't. The end result was we had 81 points after 35 games. I imagine that's only second to The Invincibles in terms of Arsenal at that stage of the season. And we could have finished on the same points as The Invincibles had we not just given up.
Given where we were last season it's not been a bad effort. The important thing for me is how we push on from here. Can Arteta push us on? I'm not sure, but he's certainly earned the right to try.