Random Arsenal Shit (When it's not worth starting a thread)

[Mac76]

Maybe he knows White better than you do. And maybe he thinks he wants to play for England but feels he’s being held back and wants to act as a mediator. Nothing about that demonstrates a lack of respect for what White is doing.

If White is determined to stick with his position, Rice I’m sure won’t push the matter. But if you’re friends with someone and you think they might benefit from changing their mind there’s no harm in trying to talk them round….if they are resolved and won’t change their mind…then you step back.

My point is he's doing that in public, instead of talking quietly to White behind closed doors - by saying it in public he's unnecessarily putting more pressure on White

[HCZ_Reborn]

Again unless you know what they’ve already spoken about privately, that’s little more than speculation

[Mac76]

Again unless you know what they’ve already spoken about privately, that’s little more than speculation

what?

I'm talking about what he has said publicly and that I think he is wrong to do so - whatever he has said privately is irrelevant

[HCZ_Reborn]

what?

I'm talking about what he has said publicly and that I think he is wrong to do so - whatever he has said privately is irrelevant

Are you really that lacking in understanding

What I’m saying is for all you know he could have spoken about this with White before hand and White is completely ok with him speaking about it in public when asked

[Mac76]

Are you really that lacking in understanding

What I’m saying is for all you know he could have spoken about this with White before hand and White is completely ok with him speaking about it in public when asked

For what reason would he be? It just puts more pressure on him and perpetuates the story - if White still makes himself unavailable he will get even more crap for it if his own team mate is basically saying he's wrong

I must admit I do wonder what your reaction would have been if I'd had said Rice was right to do it - would you then have said he was wrong...?

[HCZ_Reborn]

No I generally find if I agree with someone I don’t bother commenting

I don’t feel that strongly about this admittedly, but this idea that Rice would have said what he did without speaking to White is far fetched

But if there’s a public spat between the two I’ll admit I was wrong

[Mac76]

I think the scenario you've been talking about is Rice opening a route back for White by making it look like he gets talked into rejoining the England camp, i.e. not a total u-turn

it's feasible, but a bit of a reach, Rice could have just as easily said that he hoped that the England camp could find a way to reach out to White, rather than putting it on him - after all it's all down to Holland not White IMO

anyway after the Euros i think Southgate will go - win or lose - and then White will be clear to come back as Holland would go too presumably

[HCZ_Reborn]

I think the scenario you've been talking about is Rice opening a route back for White by making it look like he gets talked into rejoining the England camp, i.e. not a total u-turn

it's feasible, but a bit of a reach, Rice could have just as easily said that he hoped that the England camp could find a way to reach out to White, rather than putting it on him - after all it's all down to Holland not White IMO

anyway after the Euros i think Southgate will go - win or lose - and then White will be clear to come back as Holland would go too presumably

I think this is primarily what I am differing with you on, you tend to construct a narrative which you’re convinced is the most likely and then you work from that assumption to form other conclusions

I don’t know what the lay of the land is and I’ve offered possible alternatives because I don’t reach the automatic conclusion that by speaking up Rice is in Camp Southgate. I don’t think there even is a Camp Southgate, I don’t think Southgate has fallen out with White I think its more likely that he’s too weak to step in and address the issue between White and Holland

Plus nothing Rice said gave me the impression that he thinks White is overreacting or behaving unwisely, it’s more I’d like to try and persuade my Arsenal team mate to play for England again….because I think he would be a great asset for England like he is for Arsenal.

I don’t see that puts pressure on White, I think if he was worried about pressure he wouldn’t have removed himself from the England set up to begin with.

Again that’s speculative on my part, for what it’s worth I do think there’s a lot in your argument that White is waiting for Southgate and by extension Holland to fuck off.

I just don’t think White is going to feel sandbagged by this. I think it’s only Southgate that has done this to deflect from why White doesn’t get called up to the side. I think it’s not just Holland, I think White probably thinks why am I putting myself forward for selection when those useless cunts Trippier and Maguire get the nod over me.

He might even be prepared to put up with Holland being a cock

[Mac76]

I think this is primarily what I am differing with you on, you tend to construct a narrative which you’re convinced is the most likely and then you work from that assumption to form other conclusions

I don’t know what the lay of the land is and I’ve offered possible alternatives because I don’t reach the automatic conclusion that by speaking up Rice is in Camp Southgate. I don’t think there even is a Camp Southgate, I don’t think Southgate has fallen out with White I think its more likely that he’s too weak to step in and address the issue between White and Holland

Plus nothing Rice said gave me the impression that he thinks White is overreacting or behaving unwisely, it’s more I’d like to try and persuade my Arsenal team mate to play for England again….because I think he would be a great asset for England like he is for Arsenal.

I don’t see that puts pressure on White, I think if he was worried about pressure he wouldn’t have removed himself from the England set up to begin with.

Again that’s speculative on my part, for what it’s worth I do think there’s a lot in your argument that White is waiting for Southgate and by extension Holland to fuck off.

I just don’t think White is going to feel sandbagged by this. I think it’s only Southgate that has done this to deflect from why White doesn’t get called up to the side. I think it’s not just Holland, I think White probably thinks why am I putting myself forward for selection when those useless cunts Trippier and Maguire get the nod over me.

He might even be prepared to put up with Holland being a cock

I think you're overdoing what I said, I just said it wasn't helpful

I'm not suggesting Rice is in 'Camp Southgate' i just think he's been a bit dumb/naive about saying what he said in public

As for White and pressure, he presumably didn't think Southgate would throw him to the wolves in the way he's done

[HCZ_Reborn]

I’d remind you that before the reason came out you speculated that White just wasn’t that interested in playing for England because of his lack of interest in the game, which let’s be fair is in the ball park of the assumption Holland made about him.

And having read the full statement Rice gave again, he says he hopes he will play for England again but states that it’s his decision.


Also and I quote “Ben is such a good guy and an unbelievable footballer” . This is firstly a response to what he’s been asked rather than Rice deciding to intervene in the situation directly. And nothing he said suggested he didn’t support his decision, more just an affirmation that he’d like to see a footballer he likes and talent he respects play for England

I think whilst Southgate tried to throw White under the bus, I don’t think it’s worked. As despite the anticipated “White is a facking disgrace….its more a case of respecting his decision yet lamenting it because he’s better than a lot of the shite that gets picked over him.