When will Arteta be sacked by

[HCZ_Reborn]

HCZ, who would you like to come in and replace him? I assume in your eyes, his successor would win the trophies you think Arteta is not capable of winning?

Admittedly I don’t know, another reason why whilst I don’t want him here I tend to stay more quiet on the subject during times like these when just waiting for the other shoe to drop but at the same time enjoying decent results whilst I can.

I don’t think there is an obvious candidate, unlike in the latter years of Wenger where we could have been ruthless and brought in Klopp before Liverpool got him.

I more than accept that there isn’t this plethora of capable managers out there


I think it’s more that Arteta has had enough time and spent enough money, if he was going to win something big he’d have done it by now. Last season was a test and he failed it….now I’m sure a lot of coaches would have. But the difference between him and Klopp was you could see he had built something that meant he could pick up where he’d left off the previous season….i just don’t see that with Arteta.

And it’s not that I would be confident that a successor would be any better, it’s just a case of in my eyes…if someone after four years doesn’t look like they are going to produce the goods, it may be time to move them on. Now I say that, aware that I’d said I’ve wanted Arteta gone for three years…I’m not a forgiving chap and I still haven’t forgiven him for the run of form where we won one game in ten.

[selassie]

Admittedly I don’t know, another reason why whilst I don’t want him here I tend to stay more quiet on the subject during times like these when just waiting for the other shoe to drop but at the same time enjoying decent results whilst I can.

I don’t think there is an obvious candidate, unlike in the latter years of Wenger where we could have been ruthless and brought in Klopp before Liverpool got him.

I more than accept that there isn’t this plethora of capable managers out there


I think it’s more that Arteta has had enough time and spent enough money, if he was going to win something big he’d have done it by now. Last season was a test and he failed it….now I’m sure a lot of coaches would have. But the difference between him and Klopp was you could see he had built something that meant he could pick up where he’d left off the previous season….i just don’t see that with Arteta.

And it’s not that I would be confident that a successor would be any better, it’s just a case of in my eyes…if someone after four years doesn’t look like they are going to produce the goods, it may be time to move them on. Now I say that, aware that I’d said I’ve wanted Arteta gone for three years…I’m not a forgiving chap and I still haven’t forgiven him for the run of form where we won one game in ten.

So essentially what you are saying is that you expected Arteta to win a title in his first season? He has been here what 4 seasons now, of which 2 of them he was restructuring the squad and the past 2 he is now challenging for the title.

Sure we could have seen it through last season or if we are harsh he could have maybe won more domestic trophies (I.E. Carabao or FA Cup), but outside of that do you not think he has done a decent job?

Spending money doesn't equal you should / must win the big prizes.

[HCZ_Reborn]

No that’s not what I’m saying

I’m saying that in my opinion, Arteta has never given me the impression that he could make the leap to make us title challengers. To lose seven out of ten games in the league is what crystallised this for me.

I’ve been open minded enough to say well he could prove me wrong, but equally I’d say it’s as much about not being in control of the process. I’d have sacked him in December 2020, not because I didn’t think he’d win the title but because he’d lost seven games out of ten and no manager should realistically survive that at a club like Arsenal.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Spending money doesn't equal you should / must win the big prizes.

Yes of course it does, it doesn’t mean you will. But spending money is an investment and you expect a return on that investment. And I think even if you take away the fact that I’d have sacked in 2020 because of seven losses in ten…we’ve reached the point where the amount of money he’s spent means that a failure to win things represents a poor return on our investment.

I think in a couple of years it will be easier for us to win the title, Klopp will have gone, quite possibly Guardiola as well. But i think our transfers have been poor and the money is no longer there to rectify the mistakes that have been made. So in that sense possibly it won’t make a difference if we sack him, but I don’t know I kind of think sacking the person(s) responsible for putting us in that position only seems fair.

Just like if a heart surgeon botches an operation and kills the patient, sacking the doctor won’t bring back the patient but it’s a consequence for incompetence. And I use that comparison deliberately because transfers need to be conducted with surgical precision, and we’ve just swung the knife around like a drunk

[selassie]

No that’s not what I’m saying

I’m saying that in my opinion, Arteta has never given me the impression that he could make the leap to make us title challengers. To lose seven out of ten games in the league is what crystallised this for me.

I’ve been open minded enough to say well he could prove me wrong, but equally I’d say it’s as much about not being in control of the process. I’d have sacked him in December 2020, not because I didn’t think he’d win the title but because he’d lost seven games out of ten and no manager should realistically survive that at a club like Arsenal.

Come on HCZ, I know you don't like him but we are challenging for the title now and challenged last season when the best most of us hoped for and pretty much the entire world expected was a battle for 4th place.

He was lousy in back in 2020 but he has been on a upward trajectory ever since albeit with a big cheque book.

We have come from a position of not even challenging top 4 to now being a solid title challenger, well based on the past 2 seasons anyway.

[selassie]

Yes of course it does, it doesn’t mean you will. But spending money is an investment and you expect a return on that investment. And I think even if you take away the fact that I’d have sacked in 2020 because of seven losses in ten…we’ve reached the point where the amount of money he’s spent means that a failure to win things represents a poor return on our investment.

I think in a couple of years it will be easier for us to win the title, Klopp will have gone, quite possibly Guardiola as well. But i think our transfers have been poor and the money is no longer there to rectify the mistakes that have been made. So in that sense possibly it won’t make a difference if we sack him, but I don’t know I kind of think sacking the person(s) responsible for putting us in that position only seems fair.

Just like if a heart surgeon botches an operation and kills the patient, sacking the doctor won’t bring back the patient but it’s a consequence for incompetence. And I use that comparison deliberately because transfers need to be conducted with surgical precision, and we’ve just swung the knife around like a drunk

We will just have to agree to disagree

[selassie]

So in summation, yes I want him gone….ive wanted him gone for over three years. I don’t think anything will change that given that I don’t think we will win the league or the European cup under him. Now that’s 50% bias, I immensely dislike him as a person. I think he’s passive aggressive, lacking in charm and unless I was getting paid the money these players are, I’d absolutely refuse to work with someone like him.

But equally, I’m not especially animated about it. Where I was wrong is that this is going to be far more a return to top 4 is a trophy days rather than utter spinning wildly out of control.


Of course it’s not just him, with FFP I don’t think anyone could overnight take this team to winning things. It’s just not good enough…especially up front and in midfield. Rice has had an excellent season, but he lacks the technical ability, pace or ability to retain possession under pressure that would truly make a midfielder world class. And really we need to jettison Partey and Jorginho and bring in at least one world class midfielder to play alongside Rice. But we can’t do that because of Arteta’s transfer indiscipline

What you mean is you are doubling down and refusing to admit you were wrong about him? You wanted him gone and don't even know who you want to replace him. Come on man!!!

[HCZ_Reborn]

What you mean is you are doubling down and refusing to admit you were wrong about him? You wanted him gone and don't even know who you want to replace him. Come on man!!!

I think you’re looking for an argument here when there’s no need for one

It’s really not that difficult, given the money spent where we are is the very minimum we should be expecting. And I personally haven’t seen anything that makes me think we will make that leap. I tell you what though, for the sake of argument…if we win at Man City then something will have happened that I don’t think Arteta is capable of and by doing so he will have proved me wrong.


Now note that I say win at Man City and not win the title, the reason for that is because winning the title is not in our control. We can win every league game till the end of the season and still not win the title.

Of course you and I know it’s academic because we won’t beat City. But actually even a draw and there would be sufficient room for me to change my mind slightly.

You’re right and I’ve admitted that a lot of it is because I don’t like him. That definitely won’t change…but equally there’s also a clear divide between what Id like to see happen and what I expect should happen.


Do I think the board should get rid of him? No because the justification isn’t there. Would I like to see this happen? Yes because I don’t believe he’s going to get us where we want to be and persisting with him in my view is a waste of time

[HCZ_Reborn]

We will just have to agree to disagree

Well we can agree to disagree about our transfers, that is of course a matter of opinion

But surely you can’t disagree that greater transfer spending SHOULD increase chances of winning things. And that when it doesn’t, it’s because you’re in a situation like Chelsea where there is almost no coherent transfer strategy underpinning the spending

[HCZ_Reborn]

Come on HCZ, I know you don't like him but we are challenging for the title now and challenged last season when the best most of us hoped for and pretty much the entire world expected was a battle for 4th place.

He was lousy in back in 2020 but he has been on a upward trajectory ever since albeit with a big cheque book.

We have come from a position of not even challenging top 4 to now being a solid title challenger, well based on the past 2 seasons anyway.

But isn’t it indicative of what I’ve said to you about money that a coach who can lose seven games out of ten with enough spending can get you into the top four and “challenging”

But challenging also means there’s a realistic chance of winning the title and that’s what I’m saying I’ve seen no evidence of. What I’d need to see this season is us being in it right to the end.

Going by what happened two years ago for 4th and last year when we were leading the way most of the season. I don’t see evidence of capability of going that extra step.

Dont get me wrong I expect we will finish in third, and roughly in terms of points in and around what we amassed last season.

But it won’t be a race to the finish