Random Arsenal Shit (When it's not worth starting a thread)

[Letters]

It's like finding out your favorite band/artist doesn't play their own instruments or write their own songs but for years have been regarded by fans and peers as a musical genius. It's important.

Fair enough, but Wenger is no Milli Vanilli.
Elvis didn't write his own songs and a lot of people still go nuts about him. His strength was as a singer and performer, not a composer. That doesn't diminish people's admiration of him.

Wenger has strengths and weaknesses like every football manager. Like every human.
Any football manager has a team around him. There's the players of course but people off the pitch too. Dein was clearly influential back in the day. Historically though it has always been the manager who gets the most praise for successes and criticism for failures.

To say he just inherited a good defence is lazy. He did, but that team were nowhere near winning the title when Wenger took over and The Invincibles squad was entirely Wenger's, even if some of them were perhaps influenced by the older generation.
Clough did amazing things at Forest and then oversaw a long, slow decline which ended up in them getting relegated. Relegated! And I have never seen anyone pore over or analyse Clough's early success like this to try and diminish his achievements.

When it's 2003 and you're 5 points clear and you then go on a run of W2 D3 L2 which sees Utd go above us and win the title then of course it's disappointing but you have just won the Double the previous year and we did go on to win the FA Cup. It seems a bit churlish to complain. Or it's 2004 and you've just gone out of the CL and FA Cup in a week but then you beat Liverpool and go on to not only win the league but go through the whole season unbeaten.
That is not the to think "Hang on...shouldn't we have retained the title in that era? Shouldn't we have won a CL with that squad?"
Looking back we can think these things, but that doesn't completely diminish the achievements in that era or mean he was never any good.

Even since the glory days he's kept us in the top 4 till the last couple of seasons. We were possibly an Eduardo leg break away from a title in 2007/8. The last 4 seasons it's been
4th and the FA Cup
3rd and the FA Cup
2nd
5th and the FA Cup

And people are acting like it's the end of days and Wenger is the worst manager in football. A little over-stated, non?
This is our worst ever season under him and we'll probably finish 6th and we got to a Cup final. As I said, Clough took Forest down and was treated far more kindly than Wenger has been.

The only reason I can see to be quite so outraged is if you think that Wenger is not interested in success any more and is only intent on feathering his own and the board's nest. Personally, I don't think that.
He was a man of his time, but that time was 20 years ago. He hasn't moved on, football has. I honestly think it's as simple as that. I think he did pretty well to keep us relatively competitive during the stadium move.
Since the money has been available he's won a few FA Cups but he's failed to challenge for the biggest prizes. So he should go.
I don't think he should be chased down the streets with burning torches though or all his previous achievements pored over so we can try and find a way of crediting someone else for them.

[HCZ]

The only reason I can see for historical revisionism on Wenger is resentment towards him for what he’s doing now.

If people are genuinely baffled as to how a manager can win things at one point and now be awful well look at 90% of all managers in the game. Most have a sell by date

As for what Dixon said last night, is it really a smoking gun?. Did anyone but the Wenger purists really think he was a coach and made players especially defenders better in training with some kind of one on one tutelage?.

And if you think shitting on his achievements makes it easier to displace him, not really sure I follow the logic there

It is not contradictory to say very few managers could have achieved with Arsenal what Wenger did between 1998 and 2004, and also say very few managers would be doing as badly as Wenger is now with Arsenal in 2018

[Niall_Quinn]

Fair enough, but Wenger is no Milli Vanilli.
Elvis didn't write his own songs and a lot of people still go nuts about him. His strength was as a singer and performer, not a composer. That doesn't diminish people's admiration of him.

Wenger has strengths and weaknesses like every football manager. Like every human.
Any football manager has a team around him. There's the players of course but people off the pitch too. Dein was clearly influential back in the day. Historically though it has always been the manager who gets the most praise for successes and criticism for failures.

To say he just inherited a good defence is lazy. He did, but that team were nowhere near winning the title when Wenger took over and The Invincibles squad was entirely Wenger's, even if some of them were perhaps influenced by the older generation.
Clough did amazing things at Forest and then oversaw a long, slow decline which ended up in them getting relegated. Relegated! And I have never seen anyone pore over or analyse Clough's early success like this to try and diminish his achievements.

When it's 2003 and you're 5 points clear and you then go on a run of W2 D3 L2 which sees Utd go above us and win the title then of course it's disappointing but you have just won the Double the previous year and we did go on to win the FA Cup. It seems a bit churlish to complain. Or it's 2004 and you've just gone out of the CL and FA Cup in a week but then you beat Liverpool and go on to not only win the league but go through the whole season unbeaten.
That is not the to think "Hang on...shouldn't we have retained the title in that era? Shouldn't we have won a CL with that squad?"
Looking back we can think these things, but that doesn't completely diminish the achievements in that era or mean he was never any good.

Even since the glory days he's kept us in the top 4 till the last couple of seasons. We were possibly an Eduardo leg break away from a title in 2007/8. The last 4 seasons it's been
4th and the FA Cup
3rd and the FA Cup
2nd
5th and the FA Cup

And people are acting like it's the end of days and Wenger is the worst manager in football. A little over-stated, non?
This is our worst ever season under him and we'll probably finish 6th and we got to a Cup final. As I said, Clough took Forest down and was treated far more kindly than Wenger has been.

The only reason I can see to be quite so outraged is if you think that Wenger is not interested in success any more and is only intent on feathering his own and the board's nest. Personally, I don't think that.
He was a man of his time, but that time was 20 years ago. He hasn't moved on, football has. I honestly think it's as simple as that. I think he did pretty well to keep us relatively competitive during the stadium move.
Since the money has been available he's won a few FA Cups but he's failed to challenge for the biggest prizes. So he should go.
I don't think he should be chased down the streets with burning torches though or all his previous achievements pored over so we can try and find a way of crediting someone else for them.

You keep claiming Wenger has strengths as a manager, as well as weaknesses. We know all about the weaknesses. But could you please list his strengths? As a football manager, not as a financier.

[Letters]

You keep claiming Wenger has strengths as a manager, as well as weaknesses. We know all about the weaknesses. But could you please list his strengths? As a football manager, not as a financier.

You keep claiming he has no strengths. Could you please explain how someone as inept as you claim could oversee 4 seasons where the end result was:

4th and the FA Cup
3rd and the FA Cup
2nd
5th and the FA Cup

We are underachieving given our resources. But not as much as we would be were Wenger quite as clueless as you claim.

[Niall_Quinn]

The only reason I can see for historical revisionism on Wenger is resentment towards him for what he’s doing now.

If people are genuinely baffled as to how a manager can win things at one point and now be awful well look at 90% of all managers in the game. Most have a sell by date

As for what Dixon said last night, is it really a smoking gun?. Did anyone but the Wenger purists really think he was a coach and made players especially defenders better in training with some kind of one on one tutelage?.

And if you think shitting on his achievements makes it easier to displace him, not really sure I follow the logic there

It is not contradictory to say very few managers could have achieved with Arsenal what Wenger did between 1998 and 2004, and also say very few managers would be doing as badly as Wenger is now with Arsenal in 2018

It's Wenger coming out and reminding us how marvellous he is. Nobody formed a committee to kill his legacy. Wenger is the bullshit artist forcing this with his irrelevant talk about refusing other clubs and his insistence that the magnitude of his achievements mean he shouldn't have to answer any questions. So let's look at those achievements, do they warrant Wenger getting a free pass? I don't think so.

Besides, if the achievements are correctly attributed then they'll stand up to scrutiny, won't they?

[Niall_Quinn]

You keep claiming he has no strengths. Could you please explain how someone as inept as you claim could oversee 4 seasons where the end result was:

4th and the FA Cup
3rd and the FA Cup
2nd
5th and the FA Cup

We are underachieving given our resources. But not as much as we would be were Wenger quite as clueless as you claim.

Yes, I claim he has no strengths. But you claim he has. So please tell me what they are.

Indeed, a massive club like Arsenal, with all its resources, has won the FA Cup on multiple occasions. Is this down to Wenger then? He used his currently unspecified strengths to win those trophies? So why didn't he use the same strength to mount a credible challenge in the league these past 12 years? And I thought he was delusional, past it, behind the times. If so, how is he responsible for those cup wins?

Your position seems to hold many contradictions. Probably just easier if you list Wenger's strengths, then we can see how those would have influenced the cup wins and yet, mysteriously, failed to have any impact in the major tournaments.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Jesus Christ!

Not this fucking debate again!

I thought we had all established by now that Wenger is a cunt?

[Xhaka Can’t]

Jesus Christ!

Not this fucking debate again!

I thought we had all established by now that Wenger is a cunt?

No, all we established was that you’re a cunt.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[HCZ]

Yes, I claim he has no strengths. But you claim he has. So please tell me what they are.

Indeed, a massive club like Arsenal, with all its resources, has won the FA Cup on multiple occasions. Is this down to Wenger then? He used his currently unspecified strengths to win those trophies? So why didn't he use the same strength to mount a credible challenge in the league these past 12 years? And I thought he was delusional, past it, behind the times. If so, how is he responsible for those cup wins?

Your position seems to hold many contradictions. Probably just easier if you list Wenger's strengths, then we can see how those would have influenced the cup wins and yet, mysteriously, failed to have any impact in the major tournaments.

If Wenger has no strengths then he cannot he held responsible for what’s happening now

If it was totally down to the players and nothing to do with him winning three titles, then it’s totally down to the players and nothing to do with him that we’ve lost four in a row and eight in 14.

His strengths were in identifying players of great talent that other clubs had overlooked and unlocking their potential, any claim to the contrary that Henry was destined to be a world class striker is unfalsifiable.

His strengths were giving that back line of the George Graham era more time in the game than they would otherwise have had.

And then building a new defence as they did retire. Was he directly involved in Ashley Cole’s development.....maybe not but he saw his potential to pick him, he bought in Lauren as the replacement for Dixon. He convinced Sol Campbell to come here, he utilised a midfielder from a club in the Ivory Coast to be his centre back partner.

He relied on the character and drive of other players past and present to win titles.

Does that justify giving him unprecedented power, to ignore all other advice and believe solely in his own counsel. No

But denying he has any strengths?, it’s based on little other than resentment and petulance.

How dare he not fuck off the arrogant cunt. I need to totally disconstruct him.

[Özim]

Noone thinks it's solely down to the players he won titles, more that he required those ingredients to win them and is incapable of finding them himself.

In terms of how good a manager he is, I'd say not particularly good as he's effectively unable to build a top side in his own right, he requires key ingredients to be there to begin with.

His weaknesses are glaringly obvious and when you look at strengths vs weaknesses and the fact he came into the game with a bit of an advantage in that he knew the French market at a time scouting wasn't as well developed and when French football was at it's peak also made a big different, this wasn't so much a strength as an advantage.

Since 2004 he's done very little of note and you won't find many top managers that go 14 years without really challenging or winning one of the top trophies available to them.