Wenger Referendum IV

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

You missed my point.

We won before Wenger, but that was not my point. My point is the prior owners (Danny Fiszman and them) had no real interest in football affairs. They hired strong managers and let them do what they wanted. It lead to Wenger now, and before htat it was Graham and Graham taking bungs under their noses.

The only person who showed interest was David Dein, and he brought the club Kroenke and sold his shares to Usmanov for a good payout.

Kroenke is a terrible owner, but I am not going to forget the prior owners.

Fiszman actually used his own money for signings like Petit and Overmars

[Globalgunner]

Fiszman actually used his own money for signings like Petit and Overmars

Thank you...and who do you suppose brought Bergkamp here before even them. The club didnt suddenly exist when Wenger came. We were bubbling along, not troubling anyone except ourselves and the Spuds, but we were hardly in limbo. It took Jack Walkers Millions to stop the league being an annual Utd cakewalk. Wenger benefited the most by Dein not being there. Even PHW and co sat back and smoked cigars after Dein left and Wenger stepped into the breech. All self serving as we can subsequently see. He spent the next 10 years feathering his nest and making himself unsackeable in his own eyes. It has to stop

[mastermind84]

Fiszman actually used his own money for signings like Petit and Overmars

great.

He owned Arsenal for another 12 years and did not use any money since that point.

The club didnt suddenly exist when Wenger came.

who said that?

We were bubbling along, not troubling anyone except ourselves and the Spuds,

thank you for saying what I was getting at in my prior posts.

[Power n Glory]

What point are you trying to make exactly?

[mastermind84]

THat a) the stadium was needed b) Wenger did the work for the board because they were not that interested in football c) its beyond hypocritical to start pining for Abrohmavich to be our owner.

[Globalgunner]

THat a) the stadium was needed b) Wenger did the work for the board because they were not that interested in football c) its beyond hypocritical to start pining for Abrohmavich to be our owner.

Quote
Thats not a defense of Kroenke. He is one of the worst owners in american sports. Saying that, the prior ownership had no interest in footballing matters either until Wenger arrived and did their work for them.

Again. It has been proven that that is not true. There were plenty of football men on the board before Wenger arrived. Only when Dein left did Wenger become his own boss.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Quote
Thats not a defense of Kroenke. He is one of the worst owners in american sports. Saying that, the prior ownership had no interest in footballing matters either until Wenger arrived and did their work for them.

Again. It has been proven that that is not true. There were plenty of football men on the board before Wenger arrived. Only when Dein left did Wenger become his own boss.

Indeed, it reached the nadir when Danny Fiszman died leaving his shares to Kroenke beforehand. I think they liked Kroenke because they knew he wasn't going to interfere with the self sustainability model. However I don't think any of the previous board had considered football secondary to money the way this current lot do.

[Power n Glory]

THat a) the stadium was needed b) Wenger did the work for the board because they were not that interested in football c) its beyond hypocritical to start pining for Abrohmavich to be our owner.

I think you've missed a good chunk of the conversation and the points being made.
A)
We needed the stadium but have we lost our soul in the process? Plenty of people put a huge part of the blame on Kroenke as owner and worry we may end up like his other sporting ventures. I see their point and it's a worry. But I think what Kroenke does come end of the season will tell us more about him, especially when he has to pick Wenger's successor.
B)
Yes, the way the club is run and having board members that were hands off predates Kroenke. To an extent. Besides Dein and that time where Fiszman invested his own money to give the players a pay rise and buy some players, Wenger was given space and freedom to implement his ideas and change the structure of the club. Heck, he designed parts of the stadium like the changing room and was heavily campaigned for us to build a bigger stadium.
C)
Hypocritical? Again, I think you're missing the point. Wenger has done a great job on convincing Arsenal fans that we should foot the bill for Emirates, his wages and the players, whilst our two billionaire owners invest nothing at all. In fact, Kroenke has taken money out of the club and paid himself a dividend but in a sneaky way with that KSE consultancy fee. Hypocritical? No, I think people are starting to wake up after being lead like sheep for years by Wenger with his 'financial doping' campaign. I'm not pining for an Abramovich, but I'm certainly not going to champion a model that has us fans being milked to fill the pockets of our millionaire, billionaire staff and shareholders.

[mastermind84]

Quote
Thats not a defense of Kroenke. He is one of the worst owners in american sports. Saying that, the prior ownership had no interest in footballing matters either until Wenger arrived and did their work for them.

Again. It has been proven that that is not true. There were plenty of football men on the board before Wenger arrived. Only when Dein left did Wenger become his own boss.

Dein was the only football guy on the board.

The club had no greater ambition but to be better than SPurs until Wenger arrived.

Indeed, it reached the nadir when Danny Fiszman died leaving his shares to Kroenke beforehand. I think they liked Kroenke because they knew he wasn't going to interfere with the self sustainability model. However I don't think any of the previous board had considered football secondary to money the way this current lot do.

they liked Kroenke because he wasnt Usmanov.

Peter Hill-Wood used to disrespect Kroenke before Usmanov arrived. Kroenke is the reason why Dein was let go.

I think you've missed a good chunk of the conversation and the points being made.
A)
We needed the stadium but have we lost our soul in the process? Plenty of people put a huge part of the blame on Kroenke as owner and worry we may end up like his other sporting ventures. I see their point and it's a worry. But I think what Kroenke does come end of the season will tell us more about him, especially when he has to pick Wenger's successor.
B)
Yes, the way the club is run and having board members that were hands off predates Kroenke. To an extent. Besides Dein and that time where Fiszman invested his own money to give the players a pay rise and buy some players, Wenger was given space and freedom to implement his ideas and change the structure of the club. Heck, he designed parts of the stadium like the changing room and was heavily campaigned for us to build a bigger stadium.
C)
Hypocritical? Again, I think you're missing the point. Wenger has done a great job on convincing Arsenal fans that we should foot the bill for Emirates, his wages and the players, whilst our two billionaire owners invest nothing at all. In fact, Kroenke has taken money out of the club and paid himself a dividend but in a sneaky way with that KSE consultancy fee. Hypocritical? No, I think people are starting to wake up after being lead like sheep for years by Wenger with his 'financial doping' campaign. I'm not pining for an Abramovich, but I'm certainly not going to champion a model that has us fans being milked to fill the pockets of our millionaire, billionaire staff and shareholders.

A) How can you blame Kroenke for a stadium that was built before he even knew Arsenal Football Club existed?

B) Ashley Cole, one of the greatest left backs in football history an Arsenal boy and a guy who was in his prime and seen as a future captain, was sold because he wanted $5,000 more a weak. I always thought it was interesting that Cole never really criticized Wenger in any of his post Arsenal drama, but instead at Dein and others. And why wouldnt the footballing staff have input on the footballing aspects of the stadium? THat don't make sense.

C) LOL. This section is a problem with current western society. You all think the billionaires, the people with power of purse, actually have no power and that the employees are controlling public discourse. Wenger works for those billionaires. If he was doing work against the billionaires will, he would be fired. WHat is hypocritical is a fan wanting Abrohmavich to be owner of the club after bashing him and Chelsea for years.

[Power n Glory]

Mastermind, read! You've blundered in not understanding a single point being made. Each one of your points makes zero sense, especially C. It doesn't relate at all to anyone's argument.