"Currants Bw..."

[Letters]

But that's my point my dear Letters, Modern Christians cherry pick what part of scripture suits them. I would argue that the New Testament is just as grotesque in different ways as the Old, but let's not pretend that you can take the New Testament independent of the Old....it's all the Bible.

I wouldn't say we cherry pick, more try to understand it in the context of an unfolding revelation over a long time-span, in human terms.
But I'm never going to argue someone in to faith.
The original point was, and remains, you (and you're not the only one) seem to over-estimate your knowledge of what Christians actually believe. Which makes me wonder on what basis you've rejected it all.
The Bible does not say that without the commandments we would have no clue what is right and wrong - that was your initial assertion as to "what Christians believe". It actually says the reverse, you then asked why we have the commandments and I pointed you at the relevant Bible passage.

There is no point in getting into a long, fruitless discussion of whether this belief system is right or wrong or whatever, those debates never get anywhere, neither side concedes and ground and they just go round and round. Just don't claim to have more knowledge about it all than you do.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I wouldn't say we cherry pick, more try to understand it in the context of an unfolding revelation over a long time-span, in human terms.
But I'm never going to argue someone in to faith.
The original point was, and remains, you (and you're not the only one) seem to over-estimate your knowledge of what Christians actually believe. Which makes me wonder on what basis you've rejected it all.
The Bible does not say that without the commandments we would have no clue what is right and wrong - that was your initial assertion as to "what Christians believe". It actually says the reverse, you then asked why we have the commandments and I pointed you at the relevant Bible passage.

There is no point in getting into a long, fruitless discussion of whether this belief system is right or wrong or whatever, those debates never get anywhere, neither side concedes and ground and they just go round and round. Just don't claim to have more knowledge about it all than you do.

You haven't refuted anything, I'm still saying to you that the ten commandments as a moral imperative are telling people what they should hold to be right or wrong. And regardless of what Genesis might say, even if it holds that morality is innate it still comes from God, and that without this celestial monster giving us the ability to determine right from wrong we would have no idea.

So for a Christian whether it's pre-programmed or not, the answer to everything is because God commands it so, not "because it is the right thing or it is the wrong thing" because without God neither concept would exist.

That's the case whether people knew theft and murder weren't kosher before reaching Mount Sinai or whether they were moral reinforcements.

And your first sentence is a kop out, the fact is so much of the bible's teachings if not apocryphal have no bearing or relevance in today's modern age.....but instead of accepting that should be the case for the entire Book you decide that a lot of it is metaphor and believe you can derive wisdom from something written by bronze age savages.

Now i accept that's your hypocrisy and you are entitled to it, and ultimately whatever i think of your nonsense i am happy for that to be that, but will always tell you and your ilk where to go whenever I see them proselytising

[Niall_Quinn]

well as long as you're happy

or not as the case may be

Doing anything tonight?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Doing anything tonight?

Yep, going kerb crawling with David Pleat....I advised him to wait until his psoriasis had cleared up, but you know what's he like

[Letters]

You haven't refuted anything, I'm still saying to you that the ten commandments as a moral imperative are telling people what they should hold to be right or wrong. And regardless of what Genesis might say, even if it holds that morality is innate it still comes from God, and that without this celestial monster giving us the ability to determine right from wrong we would have no idea.

OK, well you're changing your argument if you're now saying that Christians think we only have morality because God pre-programmed us to have it. Your original assertion was:

But then I suppose the difference is, to me morality is more innate where as to believers we wouldn't have anymore idea of what was right or wrong than an earwig if not for the commandments on Mount Sinai.

Not true. Not Christian teaching. Not backed up by Scripture.


I didn't say anything was metaphor by the way.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

OK, well you're changing your argument if you're now saying that Christians think we only have morality because God pre-programmed us to have it. Your original assertion was:



Not true. Not Christian teaching. Not backed up by Scripture.


I didn't say anything was metaphor by the way.

The commandments on Mount Sinai are God's moral imperatives are they not, so whether they were given to people on Mount Sinai or part of an earlier imprimatur doesn't really matter. The assertion remains that without God, you have no greater understanding of what's right or wrong than an invertebrate.

As for Genesis claiming Morality is innate I am more or less taking your word for that.

[Letters]

I've told you what the commandments are and why they were given.
I've given you the references if you want to check.

[Niall_Quinn]

I've told you what the commandments are and why they were given.
I've given you the references if you want to check.

Do you genuinely believe Moses existed and was given a bunch of commandments by God on a mountain top? I mean really, in your gut?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Do you genuinely believe Moses existed and was given a bunch of commandments by God on a mountain top? I mean really, in your gut?

I actually can well believe something like this happened, that some bearded guy carved some stuff onto stone tablets and told people he was the emissary of God because if he hadn't even then the other savages would have said "well i wasn't going to thieve or murder someone anyway, but who are you to tell me not to do those things?"

[Power n Glory]

Herb - you obviously have some issues going on. Take this argument to whatever preacher touched you inappropriately. It has nothing to do with Letters and what he believes. Or at least I hope not.