2020 US General Election

[Letters]

It's too complex for you to understand.

Try me.

[Niall_Quinn]

Try me.

No. Not a chance. We'd have to go back to Sept 10, 2001 and work all the way through. And you'd quote the BBC on every single point. Wouldn't touch that with a bargepole.

[Letters]

Thought so.

As always, you’ve got nothing.

Your tactics are those of the playground.
Calling people thick.
Saying you understand so much better than us…but not being able to back up anything when pressed.
Lots of claims. No evidence. No sources.

You’re the kid in primary school playground who says they definitely know what, say, French kissing is but won’t back it up when asked to elaborate.

And when all else fails you just call people liars, attack their character and now you’ve started to make super brave physical threats. Your dad is bigger than my dad, is he? You’ll duff me up after school? This is not the way adults talk.

It is possible to have sensible conversations on here, but not while you act like this.

[Ollie the Optimist]

There is no such thing as stability in Afghanistan and there probably never will be. You can reasonably blame that on the west as well, but it goes back hundreds of years.

As much as it is horrible what is going on there, we've been there 20 years and nothing has changed. Except we've spent trillions and thousands upon thousands have died. There was never going to be any way we could have left in an orderly way and the "government" would have taken over, because frankly in huge swathes of the country they were never in charge in the first place. It's not like the Taliban have just figured out they could retake the country, they've been biding their time for years and holding off as they knew we were fucking off by a certain date. If we (and by that really the US) were still in there in full force, which hasn't been the case for years let's be honest, then the Taliban wouldn't be fucking about on the number cars or in the gym.

But that isnt true. Many things have improved there because of the US/NATO troops being there & winning freedoms. One major example is how girls can now have an education. Let’s not forget that Malala back in 2012 was shot by the taliban for daring to suggest women could have an education.

Those rights will now be withdrawn, that is unless you believe the taliban that htey are now some moderate progressive government.

Just look at the news reporters, they were able to not wear Burkas etc while reporting & the day the taliban took over, they were fully covered. Freedoms won by the west for the afghans are now lost. To say we have achieved nothing is just wrong. We had achieved good things but thrown it all away now because of a complete failure of leadership by the west.

I would urge you to watch this speech from yesterday, he says it better then most of us

[Globalgunner]

All these freedoms existed back when Afghanistan had a government that actually did stuff for its people. Women went to schools and had a western way of life, but the West didnt like that government because it didnt align with them. That government didnt even align with anyone until Carter and Reagan then started arming the Mullahs, cos well thats what they were supposed to do cos COLD war....They armed these same bearded Mullahs to kick out that government. In desperation He turned to the Soviets to fight the US backed Taliban. The Americans intensified this war of attrition supplying artillery's and RPGs until the Russian casualties became so bad that they withdrew. The Taliban murdered the former president Najibullah in the most gruesome way while he sought refuge in a UN building
Victory eh?
Now these same people gave Bin Laden refuge when he was running from the Saudis and later on came 911.
Later the Muricans went to war with the same people that they had trained and armed for over a decade cos OSAMAAAAA
20 years later is where we are now. The Americans have retreated, leaving the Taliban now with a well stocked Army, Military bases and maybe even airforce.
There is always method to this madness. I suspect the west is hoping Russia and China fall into the trap of trying to fill the vacuum they have purposely created. It was partly the war in Afghanistan that bled the Russian economy dry and led to the USSR fall in 1990. They may be hoping that history repeats itself
Its not about education or girl child or values.
Mostly war is its own end
You need to learn the lessons of history and not what the media tells you cos they lie, most always. The people that own them own the majority stocks in the MIC. Weapons sell better when there is an actual war......well war in name only as a real war technically requires 2 armies.

[Letters]

One major example is how girls can now have an education. Let’s not forget that Malala back in 2012 was shot by the taliban for daring to suggest women could have an education. Those rights will now be withdrawn
...

Freedoms won by the west for the afghans are now lost. To say we have achieved nothing is just wrong. We had achieved good things but thrown it all away now because of a complete failure of leadership by the west.

Right. But...is it any of our business? Some governments don't allow gay marriage, we do. Should we go in to the countries that don't and occupy them? Impose our standards on other countries? What does it have to do with us?
I mean, I think most people agree that the Taliban are bad. I think Kim Jong Il is bad. But where's the line? How bad does a regime have to be before we decide we know better than them?
Would withdrawing in next year have stopped this happening? What about 5 or 10 years? Do we stay there indefinitely? It certainly seems to have been done at the worst possible time and the takeover by the Taliban was quicker than almost anyone anticipated. But it seems like it would have happened whenever we withdrew.

[Ollie the Optimist]

Right. But...is it any of our business? Some governments don't allow gay marriage, we do. Should we go in to the countries that don't and occupy them? Impose our standards on other countries? What does it have to do with us?
I mean, I think most people agree that the Taliban are bad. I think Kim Jong Il is bad. But where's the line? How bad does a regime have to be before we decide we know better than them?
Would withdrawing in next year have stopped this happening? What about 5 or 10 years? Do we stay there indefinitely? It certainly seems to have been done at the worst possible time and the takeover by the Taliban was quicker than almost anyone anticipated. But it seems like it would have happened whenever we withdrew.

We shouldn’t go into countries just to impose our standards as you say but this is not the case here. We went in following the attack on the US and the triggering of Article 5 meaning one attach on a NATO ally is an attack on them all (for Trump’s disparaging of nato, the only time NATO have used article 5 is in response to the 9/11 attacks).

However we were in Afghanistan, that doesnt mean then we should just leave on the basis that it isnt our business. It became our business as soon as we went in.

The answer about how long we stay, well the US has about 30k troops in Korea. They could have withdrawn after 20 years but it is likely North Korea would have attacked again whereas the troops stayed & Korea is now a booming economy etc. The US still has troops there and its not like its completely peaceful either with North Korea as neighbours. I’m not saying Afghanistan would become the new South Korea either.

[Globalgunner]

You really dont listen or read do you. All you do.is repeat what the papers say. The NATO article you quote is a defence alliance. Who attacked the US in 911?. Most of them were Saudis FFS. Osama didnt claim it at first and when the US insisted he did it. The Taliban volunteered to give him up to be tried in neutral country. Bush the simpleton refused that reasonable offer and started the war. How do you start a war against a whole country in order to capture 1 person?. Imagine if Australia declared war on UK because they wanted their citizen Julian Assange back. Wars against Iraq Afghanistan Libya Syria. None of which attacked any NATO country yet.....Article 5 you say. Let's go bomb some shit.

We have a saying here. That when a coward sees someone he can beat. He gets hungry for a fight.

[LDG]

We had to pull out like I did with yo mummas, because there’s a point where you frankly can’t do anything about a messy pussy.

[Ollie the Optimist]

You really dont listen or read do you. All you do.is repeat what the papers say. The NATO article you quote is a defence alliance. Who attacked the US in 911?. Most of them were Saudis FFS. Osama didnt claim it at first and when the US insisted he did it. The Taliban volunteered to give him up to be tried in neutral country. Bush the simpleton refused that reasonable offer and started the war. How do you start a war against a whole country in order to capture 1 person?. Imagine if Australia declared war on UK because they wanted their citizen Julian Assange back. Wars against Iraq Afghanistan Libya Syria. None of which attacked any NATO country yet.....Article 5 you say. Let's go bomb some shit.

We have a saying here. That when a coward sees someone he can beat. He gets hungry for a fight.

You accuse me of not reading but then completely misread the point i was making about NATO but never mind. Trump regularly attacked NATO as obsolete & waste of money for American tax payers. The point i was making in my comment was that hte only time NATO has used article five to go to war in response to an attack on a NATO member was when the US was attacked.


If you believe the taliban were going to hand over bin laden then i have a bridge to sell you. Reading about it, they demanded evidence that he did it and lets face it, they wouldn’t have accepted any evidence provided but also they wanted to hand him over to a neutral country that would not bow under pressure from america to hand him over. This is a man who had committed the worst terrorist attack on america & you think it is a reasonable offer to hte US to let him go to a neutral country? Not a chance.