Summer Transfer Misery and Recriminations.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Nonsense. That's like someone saying Gerrard wasn't a box to box player because moments where he was stuck on the right.

This is a totally different argument

Gerard was a box to box player because he could win the ball deep and could still distribute the ball well after his legs started to go on him, i don't think it would have worked a player like that playing for Arsenal because we need someone who still has pace because of the way we commit to attacking.....and it often meant when Liverpool were challenging for the title under Rodgers that they scored a lot of goals but conceded a load as well.

I'm saying Ramsey gets put on the right to keep him in the side, when they are clearly better players than him being played in central midfield.

[Power n Glory]

But that was exactly how he has been utilised.....he spent half a season busting a gut and it probably contributed to him being injured long term

And again i repeat sitting deep like Pirlo in the premier league just doesn't work.....we tried it with Arteta and all we ended up with was a defence being massively exposed because he didn't have the legs.

Arteta was a defensive midfielder and a player that wasn't that mobile, agile or quick enough on the turn in tight spaces to avoid being tackled. You're talking about two different positions and players with totally different skill sets.

[Power n Glory]

This is a totally different argument

Gerard was a box to box player because he could win the ball deep and could still distribute the ball well after his legs started to go on him, i don't think it would have worked a player like that playing for Arsenal because we need someone who still has pace because of the way we commit to attacking.....and it often meant when Liverpool were challenging for the title under Rodgers that they scored a lot of goals but conceded a load as well.

I'm saying Ramsey gets put on the right to keep him in the side, when they are clearly better players than him being played in central midfield.

Cazorla isn't known for breaking up play from deep and then springing forward to attack.

[mastermind84]

why would you stick ramsey on the right, surely that's just an admission that he doesn't fit into our style of play......he's too slow...get rid of him

Ramsey on the right was clearly a result of wenger shoe horning players into positions rather than just dropping them

Here is who we should be playing if everyone is fit

Cech, Gibbs, Koscielny, Mustafi, Bellerin, Xhaka, Elneny, Ozil, Sanchez, Ox and Perez

You have never seen Perez play to say he should be starting, so I will dismiss that.

And Oxlade is absolute garbage.

You play Ramsey because he lessens the space Cazorla and Xhaka have to defend because Ramsey can run while those two cannot. He also contributes to our attack much better than Oxlade does. Its not an admission of anything, but more about allowing Ramsey the freedom to be him. You can play him as a middle right, and not as a winger.

No it's not, coming from deep necessitates being able to tackle or intercept, think fast with passing or run.....Ramsey cannot do those things

No he's not the worst player in the world, but essentially he's better off playing in a more advanced position for a smaller side where is not having to be instrumental in changing a defence into an attack.

Cazorla can do that at the moment, Xhaka was bought because that's what he is best at, Elneny is not technically as good but is a tough tackler and good running with the ball.....Jack Wilshere when fit is also good at winning the ball too deep and if he can stop himself from over dribbling would also be an effective midfield engine. I don't see that in Ramsey.....he neither has the footballing brain to distribute the ball or the speed on the ball to allow him to play there.

you do realize Ramsey is involved in way more defensive actions than Cazorla is? 2013/14, he lead the team in tackles and interceptions while proving 16 goals from open play.

Cazorla doesnt move beyond the center circle, and does not collect the ball off the centerbacks. Thats why Xhaka is here now.

And Wilshere isnt good at anything you say he is, lol.

I don't know what football you watch, but Ramsey is a box to box midfielder. Cazorla is absolutely not.

[Power n Glory]

You have never seen Perez play to say he should be starting, so I will dismiss that.

And Oxlade is absolute garbage.

You play Ramsey because he lessens the space Cazorla and Xhaka have to defend because Ramsey can run while those two cannot. He also contributes to our attack much better than Oxlade does. Its not an admission of anything, but more about allowing Ramsey the freedom to be him. You can play him as a middle right, and not as a winger.



you do realize Ramsey is involved in way more defensive actions than Cazorla is? 2013/14, he lead the team in tackles and interceptions while proving 16 goals from open play.

Cazorla doesnt move beyond the center circle, and does not collect the ball off the centerbacks. Thats why Xhaka is here now.

And Wilshere isnt good at anything you say he is, lol.

I don't know what football you watch, but Ramsey is a box to box midfielder. Cazorla is absolutely not.

I agree with you.

[fakeyank]

you do realize Ramsey is involved in way more defensive actions than Cazorla is? 2013/14, he lead the team in tackles and interceptions while proving 16 goals from open play.

Cazorla doesnt move beyond the center circle, and does not collect the ball off the centerbacks. Thats why Xhaka is here now.

And Wilshere isnt good at anything you say he is, lol.

I don't know what football you watch, but Ramsey is a box to box midfielder. Cazorla is absolutely not.

Ramsey had one good season with us, and he was really good that season. He has been shit bar that season. He is a box to box midfielder.. if running like a headless chicken and charging the opposition box like Don Quixote attacking windmills is a requirement. He has shown absolutely no positional sense and he infuriates more than any other player I have seen in an Arsenal shirt in recent seasons. All the talent in the world, and none of the brains.

We cant get rid of him soon enough. Either that, or we find a manager to put some discipline and brains into him. The later is not happening, so I guess its Ramsey out the door then.

[mastermind84]

Ramsey had one good season with us, and he was really good that season. He has been shit bar that season. He is a box to box midfielder.. if running like a headless chicken and charging the opposition box like Don Quixote attacking windmills is a requirement. He has shown absolutely no positional sense and he infuriates more than any other player I have seen in an Arsenal shirt in recent seasons. All the talent in the world, and none of the brains.

We cant get rid of him soon enough. Either that, or we find a manager to put some discipline and brains into him. The later is not happening, so I guess its Ramsey out the door then.

ok

I disagree with all of this, but I only jumped in this convo to disagree that Cazorla is more of a box to box midfielder than Ramsey.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Cazorla isn't known for breaking up play from deep and then springing forward to attack.

That was exactly what he was being asked to do when he played with Coquelin, and that's what he did

What he's known for is immaterial, Ozil was playing in the more advanced role and therefore Cazorla was playing deeper. Look at the fa cup final in 2015 or the quarter final against United and look at the interceptions Cazorla makes and then look at him bowling forward with the ball, no it's not his natural position but the two positions in front of the defence require a measure of defence because of the amount of space we leave when going forward.

And as for Ramsey needed on the right to protect Cazorla and Xhaka, why?....Elneny and Xhaka can break up the play as much as is required....what we want on the right is someone with pace, someone who can link up with Bellerin in an attacking sense.

No i don't accept Ox is garbage, it's just that Wenger doesn't use him enough to play him into form and prefers his favourites who don't deserve getting in the side like Aaron Ramsey.

I don't get this, the amount of moaning on here about how blunt we are as an attacking force and we want to blunt our attacking potency even more by playing someone who is far too slow and isn't good enough at passing to help us cause defending teams problems.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

You have never seen Perez play to say he should be starting, so I will dismiss that.

And Oxlade is absolute garbage.

You play Ramsey because he lessens the space Cazorla and Xhaka have to defend because Ramsey can run while those two cannot. He also contributes to our attack much better than Oxlade does. Its not an admission of anything, but more about allowing Ramsey the freedom to be him. You can play him as a middle right, and not as a winger.



you do realize Ramsey is involved in way more defensive actions than Cazorla is? 2013/14, he lead the team in tackles and interceptions while proving 16 goals from open play.

Cazorla doesnt move beyond the center circle, and does not collect the ball off the centerbacks. Thats why Xhaka is here now.

And Wilshere isnt good at anything you say he is, lol.

I don't know what football you watch, but Ramsey is a box to box midfielder. Cazorla is absolutely not.

Ramsey is known as a box to box midfielder but doesn't have the attributes for it, he cannot tackle....he doesn't bust a gut to run back, and his ball distribution is not good enough to start attacks nor is he fast enough to make it tenable.

Cazorla no isn't a natural box to box midfielder but when he was playing with Coquelin that was the role he occupied because he was running back to make interceptions and was running with the ball to instigate attacking movements.

If his legs are going (which they are), i can't understand why there is an argument about him playing deep if you don't want him to be a defensive midfielder because in Xhaka we have a younger player who has an excellent passing range.

The alternative is to play him in the Ozil role, but there's an issue with that....we have Ozil.

Giroud does not fit into our style of play that i think we all agree on, and we have bought a new striker in the summer, it would therefore seem sensible that unless he proves otherwise he is the better option.

[Gooner23]

Well then if Elneny is not good enough you get rid of him as well.

Well no because I think Elneny makes great back up for either Xhaka or Cazorla.