You're getting the hang of this now aren't you?Originally Posted by Ollie the Optimist
You're getting the hang of this now aren't you?
Talking to some Canadian refugees here, Trudeau has gone full tyrant colluding with airlines to ban flights to Mexico and the Caribbean and forcing all returning travelers to stay in a hotel for 3 days before getting another test (already need a pre-departure test) at their own expense, $2000 CAD for 3 days!
Speaking of these quarantine hotels the images of military greeting travelers and escorting them on buses to government run facilities reminds me of something I learned about in history at school, can't think what? Maybe we'll be told to take special showers too!
Also if I eventually come back and have to go to one of Boris' concentration camps, just how exactly do they force me to pay? I have a perfectly good residence I would prefer to go to in my own country rather than pay for my own imprisonment. I will simply refuse any bill they give me. What are they gonna do? Freeze my accounts? Take money from my bank without permission? Scary times. This is why they're pushing cashless society for full control.
How naive do you have to be to not see something else is going on? I'm not sure what, I don't have NQs convictions but I do know there is a greater agenda. I used to laugh at the conspiracy theorists but look at what is going on, most everything they said would happen a year ago is. The great reset may or may not be a thing but there are an awful lot of coincindences.
Anyway time to get back to relaxing by the pool and switching off from all this shit, that is after all why I fled. The west is done. SAD!
You have left the country knowing that the hotel quarantine policy was coming into force and that it is a risk you might be effected by it when you come back. You can’t claim ignorance over this if you get caught up in it.
While not knowing the ins & outs of the policy, I suspect that those who dont pay can ultimately be prosecuted for it. If a court orders you to pay & you still refuse, you might find yourself staying at another government residence but this time, don’t worry, they won’t send you the bill!
NOTE: The location of this post has been moved and the thread title (which was previously Wenger is Leaving) has been manipulated by a notorious pro-Wenger moderator. What was previously a message that contained no profanity and made a comment on a real life event has now been manipulated by a deliberately provocative title. An old and crude propaganda and censorship technique.
Sir Tom
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/139041...vid-pneumonia/
(Slightly preemptive)
If this happens, as it already has in Sweden and the glorious template land of China, we are absolutely fucked.
5G is the most invasive tracking network in history. For the first time, every human being in all bar the most remote regions can be tracked 24/7 and electronically interacted with, consent or no consent by the time the full set of laws that are already on the books morph into their intended practical application. Right now a bunch of hapless coppers have to chase people around if they are naughty and won't do what the state demands. In a few short years coppers won't be needed. The network will monitor everything and enforce everything at the speed of light.
Out after curfew? You'll be detected if you carry one of those stupid mobile devices with you. Or maybe one of the new miracle vaccines, that will arrive in the future now that snake oil is all the rage, will suffice should you leave your tracking device at home. In a flash, AI will determine the extent of your transgression and levy a fine. Just as fast, a state server will communicate with a bank server and you've paid up, whether you want to or not. And received a RGB000 mark on your social equality score, which will already be low if you are white and identify as a male.
Not to mention pre-crime. Long before you venture out, if you've been careless enough to communicate the intention with anyone, or even speak about it in your own home, that will be taken into account. People genuinely believe this can never happen, even though it's already happening in China. And we're all buddy-buddy with China, now they have their people installed in Washington again. The love-in with Brussels is getting raunchy. China is the model. Look there, add a couple of years and see the future for the west if things continue without genuine resistance. And half the people will cheer it on.
This time, for the first time, there may be no coming back. Technology has advanced to such a degree it may finally be impossible for the many to stand against the few - the wet dream of the elites for all eternity and their biggest fear allayed.
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Next he'll be claiming men are women, women are men, racism is equality, censorship is free speech and the world's about to end in 2012. Fucking nutter, eh?
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"Some bloke on YouTube"? Have you been listening to trolls again? Is Kerry Mullis "some bloke on YouTube"? Well I suppose he is if you want to smear instead of listen.
That article didn't address the two key concerns, or three if you take into account Mullis' statement (which seemingly everyone is extremely eager to ignore). The human immune system is number one. It retains, for extended periods, a vast amount of genetic material. That's one of the ways in which it works. These trace materials are harmless but essential in allowing the immune system to analyse invading threats and develop responses and this ties into omission number two, the definition of a "case". For the first time we are now considering people who aren't sick to be "cases", simply because genetic fragments have been amplified and detected in their "test" samples. The document claims "cases" progress to hospitalisation and deaths. I'd like to see the data to support that assertion.
Following their link that supposedly gives further details, I found this:
This does not shed any further light on the matter. Are the hospitalisations and deaths directly related to the number of "cases" being generated? In other words, is it positively "tested" individuals in hospital, or people suffering with other ailments such as flu (which is normal), other respiratory diseases (normal) and - most importantly - victims of the lockdowns? This latter point can't be stressed enough. Many medical professionals have long said there will be a catastrophic fallout from these lockdowns in terms of physical and mental health. The actual analysis of this projection seems to have dropped off the map, no doubt aided by the change to the rules governing certification of death where Covid is being added based on these "tests" but also consideration of symptoms in the absence of a test, and we know the symptoms for Covid are most conveniently similar to any other number of diseases you could mention.6) Cases lead to hospitalisations and deaths. After case numbers rose in the UK's second wave, we saw later rises in hospitalisations and deaths. These latter numbers can't just be due to problems with the test - it's hard to get a false-positive on whether someone has died or not. In other words, the later consequences of rising case numbers are precisely what we'd expect if the cases are mostly real coronavirus infections.
So we have "cases" where people aren't sick. Hospitalisations where Covid is "diagnosed" following an entirely new and incredibly slack set of guidelines, and deaths where Covid can appear on the certificate for just about any reason imaginable, with the new 28 day proviso which at least restrains some of the damage. Coincidentally, other respiratory diseases have declined and the anticipated deaths from the lockdowns are not being considered at all. How many people have effectively had care for serious illnesses withdrawn during this horrific mismanagement of the health service? I suppose they all just got better by themselves? This isn't a secret. Only recently Boris "reluctantly" suggested that non-Covid cases (genuine cases that actually need treatment) might have to be fucked over again.
I'm not in the least bit surprised we have a lot of hospitalisations and deaths, considering the shitshow that has just unfolded (and the time of year of course). I also have no problem accepting some of these "cases" are directly due to Covid (around 6% if we are anywhere near the American stats and the CDC admission). But can we just assume they are all Covid deaths, based on a "test" that can generate any number of "cases" required, an unsubstantiated correlation between these "tests" and hospitalisations and deaths, and the loosest practice for diagnosis and certification we have ever seem? I don't think so. I think the authorities are finding as many cases, hospitalisations and deaths as they possibly can to further justify the horrific laws that are being written and the draconian and psychologically damaging violence that is being inflicted on the population.
What I want to know is, why did all the rules have to be changed to deal with this particular coronavirus? We've seen coronavirus before and the rules didn't change. Why are we using "tests" the inventor himself said are unsuitable for the purpose, why are we using "tests" A Portuguese court has already ruled are insufficient to warrant quarantines and fines, why have we become so cavalier with certification and why are we ignoring all the basics of epidemiology that stood the test of a thousand viruses and bacteria?
If you haven't got questions about all this, if you don't want to hear anything bar the official version of events, that's your choice (while you still have one). But it's always worth noticing who wins and who loses when these global events unfold. Like terrorism, global warming, 911, the 2008 crash - now this. Always the same few winning, always the majority losing. Maybe it is just a 100% winning streak based on coincidence, or maybe it's time the world woke up. The trembling fools who need the world to be the way it is painted by nanny will always defend the party line. But, for the rest of us, thinking is not yet illegal.
All that aside, I checked out all the people who produce that site. It's good enough for me. Can't say I like any of them much, but they don't seem to have any obvious vested interests (apart from the Tory, I assume because he's a Tory). I'll happily listen to what they have to say. I don't agree with them in this case because they have missed or avoided several key issues which are fundamental to understanding how this game is being played out. It's actually quite silly it has come down to the level of a scientific argument, it should never have been allowed to get that far. It's very simple. The virus kills virtually nobody, and those it does could be protected. Locking down the entire nation (world in fact) and pretending we are in the middle of a global die-off is absurd. That's where the debate should have stopped, at the absurdity of the response.
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Meanwhile away from all the conspiracy theorising, this is all pretty sobering...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55863841
What curfew? Remember, you were predicting that curfews were coming "soon". That was last October. You predicted checkpoints. You've been predicting the army on the streets keeping us in our houses. Where are they?
Curiously, you have been predicting all these things while also observing people out and about ignoring government guidelines. So which is it? Do we live in an authoritarian regime which is hell-bent on control or are people out and about doing what they want without much recourse?
Seriously? You think that people who have had the vaccine can be tracked?You'll be detected if you carry one of those stupid mobile devices with you. Or maybe one of the new miracle vaccines
How would that work? Please tell me you're not so far down the rabbit hole you think that they're injecting chips into people. Or are you talking about some future technology?
The technology to do some of the things you claim will happen is possible but the issue is you look at everything through the lens of a paranoid world view where you think "they" care about your every movement and are out to get you. They don't and they aren't.
Now, I could be wrong about that but I will just observe that I've heard people wringing their hands about things like CCTV, monitoring of phone calls, emails, text messages etc for decades. It hasn't made a scrap of difference to my life. OK, so I get micro-targeted ads, but so what? They're just trying to show me stuff they think I'll like in the hope I'll spend more money. They don't do a very good job, mostly.
So sure, "they" could potentially track my every move. I've had GPS on my phone for years. I just don't think they have any interest in doing so. Or, if they do, then it's because you can do some quite powerful things with big data. Let's say you track people's movements in terms of traffic patterns or Tube journeys. That is super-useful data in terms of infrastructure and resource planning. They don't care what I as an individual do, but they certainly care about data, patterns and trends.
Again, all technically possible. But I don't think it's likely as we don't live in an authoritarian regime and I don't believe we are going to.People genuinely believe this can never happen
No, he isn't. But he was, to say the least, an eccentric.
And he did NOT say that the method he invented couldn't be used to check for viruses like Covid.
https://www.aap.com.au/pcr-inventor-...19-infections/
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-f...-idUSKBN24420X
I didn't ignore his statement - you posted it ages ago, I looked into it and quickly found things like the above. Now, I'm not an expert in this field. Frankly, neither are you. But this is a test being used around the world to detect Covid. So what is your claim here? Is it that thousands of technicians all around the world are doing tests which they know don't work? Or are they just too dumb to know they don't? These aren't government people, they're just ordinary people working in labs. Are they all idiots? In on some big conspiracy?
You recently claimed that even the WHO are admitting these tests don't work. I looked into that and it took me two minutes to find a video on the WHO website which said that these PCR tests are the more accurate ones. It did also note that these tests have to be done carefully in labs, and their recent advice about the test basically amounts to "RTFM". If you do too many cycles then you could get false positives.
And you're right that they're counting anyone who tests positive as a "case". My niece tested positive just before Christmas - she's the one who is doing that trial thing where they test her every couple of weeks to gather statistics. So yeah, she'll be in those statistics and she was completely asymptomatic. Cases are not a good metric of how serious a problem this is. BUT...cases do correlate with hospitalisations and that correlates with deaths. That makes no sense if the tests don't work.
I showed you that dataThe document claims "cases" progress to hospitalisation and deaths. I'd like to see the data to support that assertion.
This is from the government's dashboard. I did that a week or so ago, if you have a look now you'll see that cases have started going down and that is followed by hospitalisations and deaths going down.
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/
I don't see how that correlation could possibly exist if the tests are "random".
This I completely agree with. I continue to believe that the lockdowns are misguided and are going to cause a lot of long term issues in terms of health and economic hardship (which always has knock on health effects too) which arguably are worse than this pandemic. I think the government's response has been all wrong. You've mentioned the care home thing - do you think that was malicious? I don't agree if so, but it was definitely a mistake. I see why they wanted to clear the decks to make space for the expected influx of Covid patients but it definitely led to a lot more care home deaths than there should have been. Maybe they would argue that it happened before they realised that people could be asymptomatic and still spread it.This latter point can't be stressed enough. Many medical professionals have long said there will be a catastrophic fallout from these lockdowns in terms of physical and mental health.
Overall the response has been constantly reactive, not proactive, with constant U-Turns which have made this far worse for people than it needed to be. There has been no obvious strategy behind it all. But that doesn't mean there isn't a situation which needs dealing with.
Deaths are significantly higher than the 5 year average. It's true that hospitalisations cause a "crisis" most winters but the numbers, certainly in London where I found good data, are far higher than in any other recent year. I've heard enough people on the front line talking about this to make me believe that this isn't just the usual winter pressure.
The 28 day thing by the way in mentioning Covid on the death certificate is actually an improvement. The Covid deaths have been revised downwards in the light of that change. Previously Covid was mentioned on the death certificate if you'd had a positive test and then died at any point later.
It is NOT a coincidence that other respiratory diseases have declined. Again, when there's a new kid in town it dominates. That is known. And I agree about the effects of lockdown. But it seems unlikely that would cause a big enough immediate impact to see a 30% increase in mortality over one winter
So what are you claiming here? Are you suggesting that all the people working in labs are being told to change how they do the tests depending on how many positive tests are "required"? What do they do? Increase the number of cycles when more positive tests are needed? Again, these are just ordinary people working in labs, are they all "in on it"? I'm not trying to straw man you here, I just don't understand what your claim is here.But can we just assume they are all Covid deaths, based on a "test" that can generate any number of "cases" required, an unsubstantiated correlation between these "tests" and hospitalisations and deaths
And the correlation in the data is clear. If you're saying the data the government are publishing is wrong then all bets are off I guess although I'd like to see some evidence of that.
Unfortunately your starting point is that "they" are out to get us.
That is why you end up drawing wrong conclusions. There are no curfews, there are no checkpoints, the army aren't on the streets. Because fundamentally the government aren't interested in controlling your day to day movements. They are responding to a situation. I don't think they're responding in the right way but this isn't just another coronavirus, the mortality rate of this one is far higher. You gave a figure of 99.85% but no source, the source I found suggested it's about 1%. Given how transmissible it is, that's a lot of dead people if you don't do anything. I don't think the government's response has been right, but every country around the world seems to agree that this is a situation which requires an unusual response.
It's not a co-incidence. Yes, certainly people will be able to take advantage of any crisis. It's the old adage "never let a crisis go to waste". That doesn't mean that "they" are causing the crises.But it's always worth noticing who wins and who loses when these global events unfold. Like terrorism, global warming, 911, the 2008 crash - now this. Always the same few winning, always the majority losing. Maybe it is just a 100% winning streak based on coincidence, or maybe it's time the world woke up.
Your mistake is to think that people who don't see the world the same way as you are simply not thinking. You see me as the "enemy" because I don't agree with you. I'm not just looking at the BBC and basing my entire opinion about this on what they say. I have been keeping a close eye on the data, I have been looking at some of the things you've posted - when you provide a source. And because of some of those things I wasn't expecting a big second wave this winter. My nephew - who is very much a "we all need to hide under the bed" kinda guy - was wringing his hands before Christmas about how we were all about to die. I said that no we weren't and pointed out that cases, hospitalisations and deaths were already going down. And they were at the time I was having the conversation with him. But then it all started going through the roof again and while I still think he's too hysterical he was basically right that there has been a big wave of deaths this winter. Numbers are going down now and I'm hoping as the vaccine rolls out things will start get to get back to normal. And they will at some point, because the government doesn't want to keep us all in our houses. They don't want to shut down restaurants and pubs and schools. Because they aren't out to get us. They might not be bending over backwards to help us either but those aren't the only two options.The trembling fools who need the world to be the way it is painted by nanny will always defend the party line. But, for the rest of us, thinking is not yet illegal.
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