Coronavirus Pandemic

[Mac76]

every cloud ...

https://www.euronews.com/2021/12/14/...te-study-finds

[Niall_Quinn]

every cloud ...

https://www.euronews.com/2021/12/14/...te-study-finds

A strange attitude for a left wing progressive, you'd think. But then again there was a lot of if going around in 2016 when we were hearing many wishing for the elderly to die because they were interfering with certain political agendas.

The 30,000ft view might propose Brexit as some sort of decisive factor, but getting closer to the ground I'd be interested to know the correlation between deaths and the increasingly shit and wildly expensive healthcare options that have often been described as a postcode lottery. Could that be a more compelling correlation? Or could several factors be at work, including the catastrophically failed GP system, the general levels of economic discontent in many regions of the country that suffer the great Northern divide, the regional age distribution, etc? The somewhat flimsy and overbearingly focused report even hints at some of these factors.

But I would agree a significant factor is likely the larger percentage of older people who voted for their nation and against foreign control. And it is the elderly who are most susceptible to respiratory disease. So I suppose there is some truth behind your celebratory gloating.

[Mac76]

A strange attitude for a left wing progressive, you'd think.

i agree but then i'm not left wing...

[Letters]

Highest number of cases since the start of the pandemic

[Letters]

Just seen this from an ex-GWer who is there tonight:

“ Not discussing the wrong or rights of the covid passport but had several emails from Arsenal Over the week saying about it make it available etc walked through without being asked now at my seat”

So…

[Letters]

Cross checked with another Gooner there tonight.
Also not asked to show the “passport”.

[WMUG]

I was, my dad wasn't. We got there 90 minutes early to avoid any chaos, but there wasn't any.

[Letters]

Interesting. They were obviously doing spot checks.

[Letters]

Right...

You can already see the media dehumanising those who have refused the vaccine.

I'm interested in that statement. Can you give an example of that?

But as a control mechanism it makes perfect sense.

I'd suggest that's only true if all the things you said which that is predicated on are true.
And I don't think they are true.
Events or locations are not being restricted arbitrarily. It's places where a lot of people are mixing in close proximity. Which makes sense in the context of an airborne pandemic. It doesn't make sense in the context of this being about control. So they want to control people's access to nightclubs and football stadiums, but not shops or pubs? Of course we can probably point to some inconsistencies in the rules, some things which don't really make sense. But it's not a binary thing. A measure doesn't have to be 100% effective to make a difference. Which also applies to the vaccine. Again, see that article about Singapore.
We've had the conversation about tests. I continue to disagree that they don't work. When you claimed the WHO admitted they don't work all they actually said was RTFM.
If this is about control then why do they keep changing the restrictions? Do they only want to control us at certain times of the year? Since June things have basically been normal. Now the infection rate is going through the roof they're doing things to try and stop that. And if you think the data is also being faked then...what, are they faking low infection rates at different times so they can remove restrictions?

I know you have ideological issues with the state giving us permission to go certain places - because that means they can remove that permission. I would agree with you if I felt the state were using that power to control or oppress us. But I don't. I don't believe this is some slide into an authoritarian or totalitarian regime, any more than stopping people opening their curtains or restricting what people could buy was in the War. The wartime government were dealing with "a situation" as are our current government. You can argue they've made a right hash of it, but I don't see how you can argue that they're trying to control us. If that were true then why do they keep on removing restrictions when the data allows? There hasn't been a clear direction of travel towards totalitarianism, restrictions have been imposed and lifted depending on the data.

Propaganda is dangerous because much of it is based in fact. It is effective based on what it reveals, what it conceals and the context and emphasis it can place on key components of a message (often wrapped in a thousand verifiable facts). The facts are there simply to feed credibility and disguise the lie being administered.

Right. This I can agree with. But here's the point. The above description is exactly what Dore does in the video I talked about. He's basing his rhetoric on a real article, he quotes parts of it. But he leaves out parts which don't fit his rhetoric. And at one point he actually replaces a sentence with a word which makes the resulting paragraph say the exact opposite of what it actually says.
I didn't have to pick apart every sentence, I simply showed you the article he was quoting from and I highlighted the parts he read out and, more importantly, the parts he did not. Are you seriously telling me that Dore honestly represented the original article?
Come on, dude. This isn't someone who doesn't get "all his facts in a row". This isn't some outsider bravely taking on the MSM. He's a propagandist too, pushing his agenda. And most likely he's doing it for the clicks. His previous videos were pro-vaccine, now he's switched sides. Maybe because that was getting him more views? The more content he produces which plays well with his audience the more views he gets, the more money he makes. Just because he doesn't represent a big news organisation that doesn't make him unbiased or honest.

But the aim is not to prove who is right or who is wrong, it's to keep eyes away from the taboo topics being raised. Just as you are doing in this thread.

I'm simply pointing out that these people you follow aren't necessarily the "good guys". They're doing all the things you accuse the MSM of.

If you want to talk about the inflated Covid death toll then here's some data from the US.



Something is killing a lot more people than usual suddenly, if it's not Covid then what is it? I'd suggest the spike in deaths above average started before any negative effects of lockdowns would be seen (I agree that lockdowns, missed appointments etc will have an effect).

We haven't talked about the principles at risk from these covid passports or the fundamental relationship between the state and the governed.

We have talked about that a bit. Honestly, I don't think the current measures are too onerous. OK, so you have to wear a mask in a shop (although it isn't being enforced). You have to show a Covid passport for certain events (I suspect that isn't being strictly enforced either - from the above it sounds like they were only doing spot checks at the Emirates). Given that the passport is valid if you have a negative test, I don't think this the most unreasonable thing. I would draw the line at mandatory vaccination or it being all but mandatory because of the restrictions if you are not vaccinated. We aren't there yet. I like to think our government won't go there but I wouldn't put my house on that one.

I don't believe the relationship between the state and the governed has changed. The state has always had the power to impose restrictions in extraordinary situations. They did it in the War, they're doing it now. If I believed for one minute that any of these restrictions were permanent then I'd agree with you, but I don't believe that. And the reason I don't is because I've seen the way the restrictions have changed over time. From June onwards life has basically been normal. Now more restrictions are being imposed, they were temporary last time so I believe they're temporary this. I don't believe the government just asking people politely to be sensible would work - in fact, you know it wouldn't. You were the one posting about how you saw people going about their business last year - and that was right in the middle of the first lockdown. A more sensible discussion is whether the government are taking the right measures, what they could have done differently. You seem to be saying they didn't need to do anything at all and they're only doing it to control us. I've explained why I don't agree with the second part of that, the data tells me I can't agree with the first part either.

[The Wengerbabies]

Listen to the experts....

but not these ones

https://odysee.com/@QuantumRhino:9/D...rience--1747:b

For some reason Youtube have removed this