When will Arteta be sacked by

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Fair enough if you didn't intend to suggest we should ditch our manager (and I too can be guilty of binary overstatement), but in fairness saying lamenting a culture of mediocrity and saying it was good news that PSG are interested in our manager kind of invited this.


I stand by the fact that if there are those who want shot of Arteta - this is IMO astonishing and crazy. I would give him a 2 year extension based on this season - but that is just my opinion based on the progress we have seen. It's not accepting of mediocrity - just an acknowledgment that we have made clear linear progress under him and he should be allowed to finish his project. I disagree with you that we have not seen enough progress under him.


As for your fanshame comment - you wrote saying nothing would have changed if we'd made subs at the right time is a bloody cop out! Pep and Klopp have always shocked us with subs before the half hour limit once they see something isn't quite right...our more experienced former manager who is doing a great job at Villa use to do the same thing too... always believing a team of inexperienced kids will "figure it out" is a bit fanboyish and immature if you ask me.


I remain of the opinion that our fairly wretched performance after going 0-2 up against West Ham had little to do with subs. The subs we made were ineffective, and there is therefore nothing to suggest that this would have changed if the key one - bringing Trossard and Jorginho on - had been made earlier. It's a valid opinion.


And using your own observation, I have never suggested that Arteta is blameless for what happened at Liverpool or West Ham. What I suggested was that he is not to blame for injuries or senior players letting themselves down. This was IMO the most important reason for dropping points at West Ham (although I think that Arteta was more culpable at Anfied for negative subs there that handed the initiative to Liverpool).


FWIW I don't think we will win the league now. In the cold light of day however bar a complete implosion for the rest of the season, I feel this will be down to the fact that anything less than absolute perfection cannot see off Citeh. I am not expecting absolute perfection from our team (at least yet) for the simple reason that I think that this expectation is unrealistic.

Your reply js fair enough, but I want to make one thing clear that this particular remark you referred to was directed squarely at Arteta as he has given numerous interviews where he expressed this exact sentiment:

"always believing a team of inexperienced kids will "figure it out" is a bit fanboyish and immature if you ask me."


That you as a fan think the same way is not a suprise, but a top manager should see the dangers inherent in this line of thought.

Once again, I think the theme of most criticism I have made about Mikel is consistent, yes Arteta might be doing a great job for his first gig , but it is his first gig and he'll keep making mistakes with us and learning on the job. The idea that we should not criticise someone learning on the job is inimical to growth and getting him and this team to be the best it can be.

[Mac76]

I think the theme of most criticism I have made about Mikel is consistent, yes Arteta might be doing a great job for his first gig , but it is his first gig and he'll keep making mistakes with us and learning on the job. The idea that we should not criticise someone learning on the job is inimical to growth and getting him and this team to be the best it can be.

yes, agree, that's where I'm coming from, I don't believe in blind acceptance of everything he does on the basis he's outperformed in some respects this year, as i've said there are flaws and ultimately he needs to show he recognises them and can iron them out or otherwise (and ok it won't happen this summer for sure) the club will have to make a decision if it wants to kick on

[HCZ_Reborn]

yes, agree, that's where I'm coming from, I don't believe in blind acceptance of everything he does on the basis he's outperformed in some respects this year, as i've said there are flaws and ultimately he needs to show he recognises them and can iron them out or otherwise (and ok it won't happen this summer for sure) the club will have to make a decision if it wants to kick on

But in all honesty do you think that anyone here thinks there should be blind acceptance

Arteta has many flaws. Yes he could and perhaps should have made better and more timely substitutions on Sunday but it felt to me that whatever we did wasn’t going to work, and that comes back to the brittleness of the players. Is that the coach’s fault? Well perhaps this is his team after all rather than one he’s inherited…this isn’t Wenger’s or Emery’s team it’s Arteta’s.

I don’t buy into the complacency thing that’s being talked about, what I saw on Sunday and at Anfield was fear and lack of belief when things weren’t going to plan.

But either way the point is that saying Arteta probably on balance deserves more time and that on balance he is on an upward trajectory is not the same as saying he’s done everything great and is beyond criticism. I was all ready to ditch him end of last season, that time way well come again soon.

[Mac76]

But in all honesty do you think that anyone here thinks there should be blind acceptance

Arteta has many flaws. Yes he could and perhaps should have made better and more timely substitutions on Sunday but it felt to me that whatever we did wasn’t going to work, and that comes back to the brittleness of the players. Is that the coach’s fault? Well perhaps this is his team after all rather than one he’s inherited…this isn’t Wenger’s or Emery’s team it’s Arteta’s.

I don’t buy into the complacency thing that’s being talked about, what I saw on Sunday and at Anfield was fear and lack of belief when things weren’t going to plan.

But either way the point is that saying Arteta probably on balance deserves more time and that on balance he is on an upward trajectory is not the same as saying he’s done everything great and is beyond criticism. I was all ready to ditch him end of last season, that time way well come again soon.

Some people seem to be saying the reason we won't win the title is down to City's consistency and dominance - yes that is a big factor but despite it, we have done enough to have had a convincing lead still, if Arteta had got more things right, that is what is frustrating.

And don't forget he didn't initially want to strengthen the squad with players like Jorginho and Trossard but get one super-player like Mudric or Felix - again the wrong approach in terms of what we needed to push on this season

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Some people seem to be saying the reason we won't win the title is down to City's consistency and dominance - yes that is a big factor but despite it, we have done enough to have had a convincing lead still, if Arteta had got more things right, that is what is frustrating.

And don't forget he didn't initially want to strengthen the squad with players like Jorginho and Trossard but get one super-player like Mudric or Felix - again the wrong approach in terms of what we needed to push on this season

Ding, dong !!

[Mac76]

Ding, dong !!

say wha?

[HCZ_Reborn]

Some people seem to be saying the reason we won't win the title is down to City's consistency and dominance - yes that is a big factor but despite it, we have done enough to have had a convincing lead still, if Arteta had got more things right, that is what is frustrating.

And don't forget he didn't initially want to strengthen the squad with players like Jorginho and Trossard but get one super-player like Mudric or Felix - again the wrong approach in terms of what we needed to push on this season

But it’s not one or the other

Both things can be true. The mistakes are frustrating in regards to the substitutions, lack of rotation etc but the fact is that you simply can’t afford to make those mistakes because of how relentless City are. And it’s a high bar to set, in each of our last five titles wins we made major fuck ups during the season…in the unbeaten season there were 12 draws (and not to mention going out of the fa cup and champions league within three days of each other).

Losing at home to Leeds, Charlton and Newcastle in the last double winning season

Before the 2-0 game at Anfield in 1989 we lost at home to Derby and only drew with Wimbledon.

The point is even the most successful teams fuck up along the way, the managers make mistakes with the tactics, the substitutions…the players have a stinker.

That’s not to say you can’t criticise the coach. In every game we’ve dropped points this season we’ve done something wrong…but it’s just to say put into perspective the scope by which you can make mistakes and drop points and it not be costly is ridiculously narrow because of how relentless City are

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

say wha?

Lol, agreeing with you dude.

It'll be interesting next season when Citeh get their rightful points deduction...I hope we won't be hearing things like "well the EPL should have taken 50 points off them to make it a more level playing field....."

..or maybe then Chelsea's massive investment in their squad will kick in and they'll become the new boogey man.....

IMO there will always be a team that has some sort of upper hand over us, people seem to have forgotten that we were never richer than Man U nor did we have the referees as our 12th man like they did, yet we competed.

Anyway, we should probably stay focused on this season, seeing as it ain't over yet.

[HCZ_Reborn]

It is over. Had we won at Anfield we might have been slight favourites but we didn’t, and West Ham was a must win which we didn’t win. Plus it’s about form, you simply cannot carry the form and mentality into the City game and expect anything but a hard violent raping.
I wouldn’t even be surprised if we drop points against Southampton. Not because they are any good, but simply because we are in free fall

[Marc Overmars]

Some people seem to be saying the reason we won't win the title is down to City's consistency and dominance - yes that is a big factor but despite it, we have done enough to have had a convincing lead still, if Arteta had got more things right, that is what is frustrating.

And don't forget he didn't initially want to strengthen the squad with players like Jorginho and Trossard but get one super-player like Mudric or Felix - again the wrong approach in terms of what we needed to push on this season

Convincing lead on paper, but we didn’t play City until mid Feb and still had/have some of the most difficult fixtures of the season to come. There was a reason why there was such caution even when we were 7 or 8 clear given the fixtures we still had to play. City’s most difficult games were arguably done and dusted after they came to the Emirates.

City have dropped silly points and so have we. It will be the head to heads that determine where the title is going and that’s why the margin is so fine. You could win every game but if you don’t come out on top in that the likelihood is that you won’t be winning the league.