2020 US General Election

[Globalgunner]

You accuse me of not reading but then completely misread the point i was making about NATO but never mind. Trump regularly attacked NATO as obsolete & waste of money for American tax payers. The point i was making in my comment was that hte only time NATO has used article five to go to war in response to an attack on a NATO member was when the US was attacked.


If you believe the taliban were going to hand over bin laden then i have a bridge to sell you. Reading about it, they demanded evidence that he did it and lets face it, they wouldn’t have accepted any evidence provided but also they wanted to hand him over to a neutral country that would not bow under pressure from america to hand him over. This is a man who had committed the worst terrorist attack on america & you think it is a reasonable offer to hte US to let him go to a neutral country? Not a chance.

I gave you facts and you respond with your opinion. All you have done there is morph into Bush jnr and gung ho decided war was your best option. You have alternatives but chose to invade because it would be easy. Even after Bin laden was killed still the war continued which should tell you something. After Salisbury when it was declared the Russians did it. Why no war. You can bet if Ethiopia or Somalia had carried out that attack. It would have been ships launched and bombs away. Pray tell me what Iraq had to do with 911?

[Ollie the Optimist]

I gave you facts and you respond with your opinion. All you have done there is morph into Bush jnr and gung ho decided war was your best option. You have alternatives but chose to invade because it would be easy. Even after Bin laden was killed still the war continued which should tell you something. After Salisbury when it was declared the Russians did it. Why no war. You can bet if Ethiopia or Somalia had carried out that attack. It would have been ships launched and bombs away. Pray tell me what Iraq had to do with 911?

You described the taliban offer of handing over Bin laden as “ Bush the simpleton refused that reasonable offer .”. That is not a fact, that is an opinion given you describe it as reasonable.

I have not argued that going to war was the best option, that is a completely separate argument. My issue at hte moment is how we have withdrawn causing chaos in a country through our own actions. Once we went to war, we had a responsibility to leave the country in a better place. We have failed in that mission & it is perfectly reasonable to criticise the leaders of US, UK etc for that.

[Niall_Quinn]

Thought so.

As always, you’ve got nothing.

Your tactics are those of the playground.
Calling people thick.
Saying you understand so much better than us…but not being able to back up anything when pressed.
Lots of claims. No evidence. No sources.

You’re the kid in primary school playground who says they definitely know what, say, French kissing is but won’t back it up when asked to elaborate.

And when all else fails you just call people liars, attack their character and now you’ve started to make super brave physical threats. Your dad is bigger than my dad, is he? You’ll duff me up after school? This is not the way adults talk.

It is possible to have sensible conversations on here, but not while you act like this.

Fairly obvious you'd run there, as if I haven't tried with you a hundred times already. Such a dishonest prick, you are. You really think I'm going to go around the bowl with you again? No chance. People like you don't want to learn so therefore you can't be taught.

[Niall_Quinn]

But that isnt true. Many things have improved there because of the US/NATO troops being there & winning freedoms. One major example is how girls can now have an education. Let’s not forget that Malala back in 2012 was shot by the taliban for daring to suggest women could have an education.

Those rights will now be withdrawn, that is unless you believe the taliban that htey are now some moderate progressive government.

Just look at the news reporters, they were able to not wear Burkas etc while reporting & the day the taliban took over, they were fully covered. Freedoms won by the west for the afghans are now lost. To say we have achieved nothing is just wrong. We had achieved good things but thrown it all away now because of a complete failure of leadership by the west.

I would urge you to watch this speech from yesterday, he says it better then most of us

You're a fucking idiot mate. That's all I can say at this point. I can't believe people as gullible as you actually exist. Well - I can now.

[Niall_Quinn]

All these freedoms existed back when Afghanistan had a government that actually did stuff for its people. Women went to schools and had a western way of life, but the West didnt like that government because it didnt align with them. That government didnt even align with anyone until Carter and Reagan then started arming the Mullahs, cos well thats what they were supposed to do cos COLD war....They armed these same bearded Mullahs to kick out that government. In desperation He turned to the Soviets to fight the US backed Taliban. The Americans intensified this war of attrition supplying artillery's and RPGs until the Russian casualties became so bad that they withdrew. The Taliban murdered the former president Najibullah in the most gruesome way while he sought refuge in a UN building
Victory eh?
Now these same people gave Bin Laden refuge when he was running from the Saudis and later on came 911.
Later the Muricans went to war with the same people that they had trained and armed for over a decade cos OSAMAAAAA
20 years later is where we are now. The Americans have retreated, leaving the Taliban now with a well stocked Army, Military bases and maybe even airforce.
There is always method to this madness. I suspect the west is hoping Russia and China fall into the trap of trying to fill the vacuum they have purposely created. It was partly the war in Afghanistan that bled the Russian economy dry and led to the USSR fall in 1990. They may be hoping that history repeats itself
Its not about education or girl child or values.
Mostly war is its own end
You need to learn the lessons of history and not what the media tells you cos they lie, most always. The people that own them own the majority stocks in the MIC. Weapons sell better when there is an actual war......well war in name only as a real war technically requires 2 armies.

Well said. Somebody who can actually remember reality without having to refer to an ever changing propagandist BBC service.

[Niall_Quinn]

We shouldn’t go into countries just to impose our standards as you say but this is not the case here. We went in following the attack on the US and the triggering of Article 5 meaning one attach on a NATO ally is an attack on them all (for Trump’s disparaging of nato, the only time NATO have used article 5 is in response to the 9/11 attacks).

However we were in Afghanistan, that doesnt mean then we should just leave on the basis that it isnt our business. It became our business as soon as we went in.

The answer about how long we stay, well the US has about 30k troops in Korea. They could have withdrawn after 20 years but it is likely North Korea would have attacked again whereas the troops stayed & Korea is now a booming economy etc. The US still has troops there and its not like its completely peaceful either with North Korea as neighbours. I’m not saying Afghanistan would become the new South Korea either.

Cause the problem. The lament when people baulk at the solution. You have everything backwards.

[Niall_Quinn]

We had to pull out like I did with yo mummas, because there’s a point where you frankly can’t do anything about a messy pussy.

Best not to fuck her in the first place. But if she's paying up all that cash I can see the temptation.

[Niall_Quinn]

You accuse me of not reading but then completely misread the point i was making about NATO but never mind. Trump regularly attacked NATO as obsolete & waste of money for American tax payers. The point i was making in my comment was that hte only time NATO has used article five to go to war in response to an attack on a NATO member was when the US was attacked.


If you believe the taliban were going to hand over bin laden then i have a bridge to sell you. Reading about it, they demanded evidence that he did it and lets face it, they wouldn’t have accepted any evidence provided but also they wanted to hand him over to a neutral country that would not bow under pressure from america to hand him over. This is a man who had committed the worst terrorist attack on america & you think it is a reasonable offer to hte US to let him go to a neutral country? Not a chance.

Wrong as always. Trump's message was crystal clear. He wanted the other nations in NATO to pay their fair share, which only the UK ever did. And it's debatable whether that was fair considering it wasn't American soil being defended. You are so far off the map, so indoctrinated with propaganda. You are dangerous, not individually, but as a node in the zombie matrix.

[Ollie the Optimist]

I think quite simply it’s time you get fucked. You have no interest in genuinely debating any issue, you just call people idiots & act as if you know everything

[Niall_Quinn]

You described the taliban offer of handing over Bin laden as “ Bush the simpleton refused that reasonable offer .”. That is not a fact, that is an opinion given you describe it as reasonable.

I have not argued that going to war was the best option, that is a completely separate argument. My issue at hte moment is how we have withdrawn causing chaos in a country through our own actions. Once we went to war, we had a responsibility to leave the country in a better place. We have failed in that mission & it is perfectly reasonable to criticise the leaders of US, UK etc for that.

The offer was very simple. Provide evidence Bin Laden had committed a crime and the Taliban would hand him over. Of course any evidence the US could have possibly submitted would have implicated them in far greater crimes. So the receipts were not forthcoming. I'm afraid the Taliban, just another shitty government, is more respectable than the US government, when you map it all out side to side. And, make no mistake, the Taliban are epic fuck stains. BUT... The BBC says...