Do we need a new manager?

[I am invisible]

Hmm, weren’t we all encouraged last season that he did manage to work with what he had though? That was his biggest achievement, so to speak. The group of players had already been deemed uncoachable but he organised them and at one point they even looked like a reasonably solid unit. He took credit for that then so it can’t suddenly be the players now.

I just think he’s an average coach who’s dug his own grave with multiple decisions that have backfired horrendously.

However I do believe he should be left to finish the job this season. Then we can have absolutely no doubt about the decision facing us.

Yeah, I really don’t know what to make of him as a coach right now - really struggling to marry up what we saw in the second half of last season with what we’ve seen over the last couple of months and work out what’s gone wrong? Sometimes you get brief glimpses of what Artetaball could be, and it looks pretty good, but mostly it’s not, and it’s a little alarming that the good moments are always so fleeting. I’m worried that he’s either an elite assistant coach who is great at working with individuals, but not necessarily a ‘big picture’ guy who knows how to implement a vision; or he’s bringing ideas that require peak Man City levels of talent and mindset to execute, which is no good to us.

I’m starting to think that last season’s turnaround was probably down to motivated self-interest as much as coaching. Arteta changed the shape of the side and taught the players a few quick tricks to minimise their weaknesses - he still gets a lot of credit for that - but looking back at it I’m guessing that he also negotiated some kind of temporary truce / deal with many of the senior players that was critical to that success; “do what I ask and give me your best effort for another 5 months, and I’ll get you a much better move in the summer / bumper new contract / etc”. But then COVID happened, everyone had their wages cut, and we’ve all ended up stuck with each other after another disastrous summer of trying (and failing) to move most of them on.

The problem we now have with most of our senior players is that they know they’re not wanted, and the closer they get to the end of their deals, the less we have at our disposal to motivate them. At this point there’s no incentive there for them - no one’s opened talks over extending contracts and there’s certainly not going to be one last shot at glory - and there’s nothing we can threaten them with either. We can’t even guilt-trip them by playing the loyalty card. Loyalty to who? The people who signed most of them are all long gone, and their relationship with the fans must be broken beyond all repair by now. If these guys have decided that they’ve had enough and can’t be arsed any more then I don’t think there’s anything that any coach is going to be able to wring out of them - we’re just going to have to ride it out until the summer when hopefully enough of them will fuck off to make a difference.

As you say, we might as well give Arteta the rest of the season now a) to see if he has it in him to turn it around and b) because I don’t see the point in chucking another new coach onto this bonfire - anyone new coming in would be on a hiding to nothing if they can in now. (Also, we can’t afford anyone good, and we’ve got absolutely fuck all to offer them until the summer anyway.)

One thing I can say without any hesitation, though: Arteta is definitely not a manager, and knocking him back down to head coach is something that can (and should) be done immediately. If Edu can’t do his job without a manager there to share the load with then he’s not the right man for the job and he should go. Quite frankly he should be fired anyway, as this season is his second strike after his part in last season’s shit show and dodgy dealings.

[hobson's choice]

I want to give him a chance, but I just don't see a plan. Especially with the development off our younger players.

[I am invisible]

Yeah, I’m confused by the total non-use of the younger players. I know he’s said in the past that it shouldn’t fall on them to sort this mess out - that it’s the senior players’ responsibility - but, whilst I agree with that in principle, it’s got to be pretty clear at this point that we’re all out of options. Too many of the senior players have mentally checked out and we’re facing catastrophe if we don’t come up with half a new starting XI pretty bloody quick!

I suppose there’s also physical issues and duty of care to consider with developing players? Overplay them too early in their careers and we’ll end up with a bunch of Wilsheres (just look at Martinelli, ESR and Saliba who are already working their way back from major, long-term injuries). It’s got to be a factor in their thinking - I’m just hoping that we’ll maybe see a little more reliance on them in the tail end of the season, when there’s only 4-5 months left to play and we’re out of the cups with less games per week (and more recovery time)? Not much evidence to base that on though - kind of clutching at straws here.

[Slacker]

I think there is a quick fix in there already. Play the youngsters and persist with them. Stop playing the likes of Xhaka, Mustafi, Luiz, Chambers, Kolasinac and Elneny because we are still dogshit with them anyway. At least the youngsters have a chance of either proving they can step up to the plate or they can't cut it.

We have players on loan like Guendouzi, Torreira and Mavropanos and Ozil doing nothing when they are better than what Arteta chucks in week in week out. He's clearly not a very good man manager because he lets personality issues get in the way when he should be above it. Should have gone for Potch even though he's a Spud.

Arteta is shit. Sack him.

The Board aren't blameless either. They rejected Abramovich and he made Chelsea CL winners. They then rejected Usmanov and he's now bankrolling Everton. Stan doesn't give a fuck and they knew that when they appointed him. OK Manc City and Chelsea have bought their success, but they'e in a better position than we are.

[Mac76]

I think there is a quick fix in there already. Play the youngsters and persist with them. Stop playing the likes of Xhaka, Mustafi, Luiz, Chambers, Kolasinac and Elneny because we are still dogshit with them anyway. At least the youngsters have a chance of either proving they can step up to the plate or they can't cut it.

We have players on loan like Guendouzi, Torreira and Mavropanos and Ozil doing nothing when they are better than what Arteta chucks in week in week out. He's clearly not a very good man manager because he lets personality issues get in the way when he should be above it. Should have gone for Potch even though he's a Spud.

Arteta is shit. Sack him.

The Board aren't blameless either. They rejected Abramovich and he made Chelsea CL winners. They then rejected Usmanov and he's now bankrolling Everton. Stan doesn't give a fuck and they knew that when they appointed him. OK Manc City and Chelsea have bought their success, but they'e in a better position than we are.

agree with most of this, though Chambers is a good utility player who gives a shit and should get more game time if anything

[Bumble]

We complain about arteta wonder if chelsea complain about lampard. Reckon he is out of his depth too. We are only 3 points behind.

[Gooner23]

Could be fired soon according to the Athletic, amazing the difference a week makes

[WGC Goon]

I'm amazed by the teams turnaround simply because we made a couple of changes to the starting XI. Smith Rowe could save us from potentially wasting a serious amount of money spent panic buying in the January sales. How does everyone feel about Arteta now?

[Bumble]

I'm amazed by the teams turnaround simply because we made a couple of changes to the starting XI. Smith Rowe could save us from potentially wasting a serious amount of money spent panic buying in the January sales. How does everyone feel about Arteta now?

think it helps scoring the first goal - I am sure if CHelsea scored first we would have lost. But winning builds confidence so next time we go behind we should have a better idea how to score goals rather than just lumping it into the box

[Marc Overmars]

I'm amazed by the teams turnaround simply because we made a couple of changes to the starting XI. Smith Rowe could save us from potentially wasting a serious amount of money spent panic buying in the January sales. How does everyone feel about Arteta now?

Happy he's backed some fresh faces in the team, even if they probably were forced changes but they've been positive changes none the less.

3 wins doesn't really change a huge amount in my thinking because it is a salvage operation now thanks to the damage that was already done. If we can go on a 10 game unbeaten run or something like that and maybe even haul ourselves into top 4 contention then I would feel like the tide has truly turned. There's just too much evidence for this team flaking though, so it is hard to be convinced it won't happen again.

I suspect the second half of the season will now be similar to last year when we were just floating around mid table and occasionally threatening the top 6.