Wenger on contract renewals

[Japan Shaking All Over]

I agree with Coney that it is utter crap thay the club sufficez with a top four position, rather that is the mininmum of our aims. . . .nobody can tell me that after last years LC loss, that Wenger walked into the changing room and said 'Chin up lads, we still got 4th place to play for'

Fourth guarantees a chance to play in Europes premier competition and tells some that we are not far behind the best in the land. . . .although someone forgot to mention that the chasm between fourth and the top three is. . .was quite significant.

I reckon this time is different and we have more winners, there is a different mental about the time and that coupled with some shrewd business come January could show us that we can dare hope once again.

[Özim]

I agree with what Syn said, in that he is doing the boards will, and as such carrying out his part of the bargain.

I also believe that his "own" job description would have included winning shit. He wants to win trophies, he hates losing. Any fool can see that.

We'll never know, but I think, inside at least, he'll be wishing he had a few more quid to spend.

I believe that if he was a "winner" he would have given the board an ultimatum, the fact he hasn't shows he's perfectly happy with things and with getting 4th place every year. Do you think the likes of Ferguson or Mourinho would settle for that?

At the end of the day noone forces him to stay and sign new contracts, if he wasn't happy he could walk, 6 million a year probably keeps him happy though, it's money over football at the end of the day.

He's not a victim in all this, he has a choice, he chooses to stay and get paid handsomely for 4th place.

[Power n Glory]

To be fair we're doing just as well having had a mass clearout as we've done persuading players to hang on, we'll still probably finish 4th this year. And we'll still have the highest ticket prices in the world. There's a flaw in his philosophy IF it is his philosophy as opposed to his job description. Employees talk shit on behalf of their shy bosses all the time - in public at least. Few will say anything to upset those bosses. If Wenger is being paid £6mill a year to finish 4th, develop players and flog them for a profit then he's doing that job monotonously well. The question is, does he set his own job description? And if he does, we have to assume the board sees eye to eye with him. But in reality it's a lot more realistic to assume he's doing what he's told, just like any other employee.

How can a Board memeber set such a policy? How do they know when a player has hit their peak or how many years they have left performing at the top level? That is something only a manager can determine. His job description may be to stay in the top four and to save money but how Wenger goes about it is up to him. I can't see the point in keeping 2-3 players on the payroll that don't perform but refusing to give an older player a good contract because we fear his performance will drop.

You've got to start looking at the langauage Wenger is using here and how scientific he is regarding performance and stats. Fair enough, the Board want to save money but the philosophy of how we go about it is down to Wenger because he's the expert on player peak and conditioning. I just hope he's not referring to RVP's contract situation. But he freely talks about this stuff and we've seen managers and clubs in far worse financial conditions and you never ever hear them talk like this.

[LDG]

I believe that if he was a "winner" he would have given the board an ultimatum, the fact he hasn't shows he's perfectly happy with things and with getting 4th place every year. Do you think the likes of Ferguson or Mourinho would settle for that?

At the end of the day noone forces him to stay and sign new contracts, if he wasn't happy he could walk, 6 million a year probably keeps him happy though, it's money over football at the end of the day.

He's not a victim in all this, he has a choice, he chooses to stay and get paid handsomely for 4th place.

Hmmm.

Well, I happen to believe that he thought he had a squad good enough to challenge. And based on last year (pre fuck up) he did.

Think the dolly's may have gone out of the pram when Nasri and Cesc went though. So I'm expecting us to invest in January. Just my take.

Yes, he has fucked up. Yes, the project didn't work. But you only have to look at him to see how fucked off he was last year; And the additions he's made this year (and for peanuts) would show to me that he's ditched the project, and taken a good look at himself.

Just my take.

[Özim]

Hmmm.

Well, I happen to believe that he thought he had a squad good enough to challenge. And based on last year (pre fuck up) he did.

Think the dolly's may have gone out of the pram when Nasri and Cesc went though. So I'm expecting us to invest in January. Just my take.

Yes, he has fucked up. Yes, the project didn't work. But you only have to look at him to see how fucked off he was last year; And the additions he's made this year (and for peanuts) would show to me that he's ditched the project, and taken a good look at himself.

Just my take.

I'm not denying he likes winning games and doesn't like losing in reality, because it's clear he does and doesn.t, but it's the degree to which he does. He's often said winning isn't everything and his comments about strikers who are 29-30 years of age is again a financial one, a manager with winning on his mind would be thinking can this guy help us win a trophy.

His belief in his squad cannot be doubted, it's a big flaw though as he's unable to dettach himself and see the reality, in the summer he lost players and after a bad beating we were left with little choice but to make panic buys (something he said he'd never do incidentally). They seem to have worked out well so far and we're doing OK, though it's fair to say these players probably weren't our first choice signings, we'll have to see how we do next year when we usually collapse to see if things have really changed though.

The teams work ethic certainly seems better, though we are relying on the one player who Wenger seems to be referring to a lot,

[Kano]

I believe that if he was a "winner" he would have given the board an ultimatum, the fact he hasn't shows he's perfectly happy with things and with getting 4th place every year. Do you think the likes of Ferguson or Mourinho would settle for that?

At the end of the day noone forces him to stay and sign new contracts, if he wasn't happy he could walk, 6 million a year probably keeps him happy though, it's money over football at the end of the day.

He's not a victim in all this, he has a choice, he chooses to stay and get paid handsomely for 4th place.

you have NO idea what conversations have taken place. if you do, can you share with the other kids please

[Özim]

you have NO idea what conversations have taken place. if you do, can you share with the other kids please

I know he's still there, if he wasn't he could have left...that's enough to come to the conclusion that he's happy enough with his targets.

[Niall_Quinn]

How can a Board memeber set such a policy? How do they know when a player has hit their peak or how many years they have left performing at the top level? That is something only a manager can determine. His job description may be to stay in the top four and to save money but how Wenger goes about it is up to him. I can't see the point in keeping 2-3 players on the payroll that don't perform but refusing to give an older player a good contract because we fear his performance will drop.

You've got to start looking at the langauage Wenger is using here and how scientific he is regarding performance and stats. Fair enough, the Board want to save money but the philosophy of how we go about it is down to Wenger because he's the expert on player peak and conditioning. I just hope he's not referring to RVP's contract situation. But he freely talks about this stuff and we've seen managers and clubs in far worse financial conditions and you never ever hear them talk like this.

I'm not saying the board micro-manages in that way. But if they say to him, make us £10mill this year then he immediately operates within a certain space, doesn't he? The contract policy starts to make sense. I'm the same, I hope he's not referring to RvP's contract but the chances are he is. We've already been here with Nasri, if RvP doesn't want to sign on the board's timescale then consider him gone. I don't think much of Wenger's statistical minutiae either and can't see what it has yielded, if anything we seem to have more and longer injuries than anyone else. But for me it's all a symptom of the board milking the club and the fans. Even Wenger's blind faith in certain players, does he THINK they will come good or is he HOPING beyond hope they will because he has precious few other choices?

[Syn]

I didn't really want this to turn into another 'board vs wenger' thread but here's my take: I don't think anyone questions that he wants to win. You can visibly see he was suffering on the touchline in the last few years. But ultimately the fact that he hasn't won doesn't appear to be any problem for the board. Money buys you good players, good players help you do better. Even Wenger would know this. If he had the money available, and he was told to win us the league, he would spend it. If he doesn't spend it and we fail, the board have to sack him after repeated failure to do so. The fact that they haven't sacked him suggests they're more than happy with it. The fact that money is still not being spent suggests that Wenger is under no pressure to do so. Wenger is not a victim though - the board have set-up this game and he's happy to play it. The board, Wenger and anyone at the club can say what they want, but actions speak louder than words.

But back to the contract situation: @TT: 'in terms of letting players go at the right time, it's hard to find many mistakes' - that's a bit of self-confirming idea. We can't find mistakes because we have let them go. When we have continued to let our first-team players go, we have to keep re-building. Having more continuity would've helped. I think Man Utd have done this very well. Keeping Pires on for a couple more years - even though not at his best - would still have strengthened the squad depth...and squad depth has been the main problem. The first-team have always been as good as any but the players coming in to cover for injuries haven't been solid players.

I think Van Persie wants to stay at the club. I can't prove it but it's what I think - he has a strong connection with the club and no real connection with any other. I'm guessing he's settled in London. I think he is enjoying being the centre of attention and being the hero after Cesc's departure. I think he probably wants a lot more money as he believes a player of his ability could be earning a lot more elsewhere. He wants the club to do well but he's also not a child and I don't think he'd enjoy counting trophies playing a limited role elsewhere. I think he knows he hasn't got many years left playing at a 'goal a game' standard and he'll know that he has to be a 'goal a game' player to play for any teams better than Arsenal. I don't think he will want to stay in England if he does leave, which means Barcelona, Real Madrid or, currently, Bayern are the only teams clearly better than Arsenal. I reckon we could get him to stay if we offer him enough money. But Wenger's words here are very discouraging and he seems to be preparing us for Van Persie's exit. Whoever the words are from, they are trying to rationalise the decision to not meet the demands of a striker because they don't feel he's worth the mega money (£150k or whatever) for more than 2 years and then he might only be a £70k player. Personally, I think there would be another damaging impact in the squad if, again, the star man leaves...because, at the moment, we really haven't got any more left. Maybe Wilshere will get there soon but having missed over half a season, his development might be set back a bit. Even if Van Persie's playing ability is not worth the money he's demanding (assuming it's not completely ridiculous), the damage his loss would have probably more than covers it. Just pay him the fucking money tbf.

[Kano]

I know he's still there, if he wasn't he could have left...that's enough to come to the conclusion that he's happy enough with his targets.

no it isn't. if only life was so simple and black and white