Ballon D'Or 2012

[Xhaka Can’t]

It gives us something to talk about.

5.7

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Only .3 away from domination.

[Injury Time]

It's great reading the full list, it reminds me of countries I never knew existed during the Olympic Parade.

We literally little bit nearly signed that entire list

[McNamara That Ghost...]

I want us to sign the media voter for Georgia.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

It is pure fantasy. You haven't considered that Messi is King there, Zlatan and David Villa (two guys that have achieved a lot more than RVP has, even if I don't think they are neccesarily better) have found that out to ther cost, therefore Messi is going to be in his position and everyone else will have to work around that. That is not the case for RVP at Man Utd since they wised up and started playing it to him at every opportunity (quite rightly so) just like we did but he wouldn't be afforded that at Barcelona, nobody else will bar Messi.

Also, I'm fairly sure Real Madrid dominate in most games they play in, aside from the Barcelona games and even then they have had multiple games where they annihilated Barcelona at points. It didn't last of course but we're hardly talking about club paupers when it comes to Real Madrid, yet Ronaldo can't even keep up with that kind of scoring record.

i was referring to messi's record in the league. i dont think it's fantasy to suggest that if rvp was in that barca team either with or without messi, that he could score 50 league goals in a season. he scored 30 in a team filled with no hopers and very little service, with less technically gifted players, and on top of that he done it in a more physical league. put him in a team where he has a lot more goal scoring opportunities every game, top quality service, and the luxury of the best players in the world with him and he could quite easily notch another 15-20 goals.

any your last point is irrelevant because my post had nothing to do with domination, i specifically spoke about goal scoring opportunities. domination and goal scoring opportunities are two completely different things. you can dominate games but create nothing in front of goal. look at the arsenal teams prior to last season.

barca create a lot more opportunities in front of goal than madrid. its wave of attack after attack. hence messi has more goal scoring opportunities to convert.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

i was referring to messi's record in the league. i dont think it's fantasy to suggest that if rvp was in that barca team either with or without messi, that he could score 50 league goals in a season. he scored 30 in a team filled with no hopers and very little service, with less technically gifted players, and on top of that he done it in a more physical league. put him in a team where he has a lot more goal scoring opportunities every game, top quality service, and the luxury of the best players in the world with him and he could quite easily notch another 15-20 goals.

any your last point is irrelevant because my post had nothing to do with domination, i specifically spoke about goal scoring opportunities. domination and goal scoring opportunities are two completely different things. you can dominate games but create nothing in front of goal. look at the arsenal teams prior to last season.

barca create a lot more opportunities in front of goal than madrid. its wave of attack after attack. hence messi has more goal scoring opportunities to convert.

To say he had very little service here is just not true, regardless of what shitkickers we might have in the team. Everything went towards him (and the right choice it often was) - think of the goal against Norwich where Song could've played it to Gervinho but waited for longer and eventually played it to RVP, who then chipped it in. That's just a snippet of what happens when you know the best option is the same guy you always try and find.

He wouldn't get the amount of goals you assert he could get at the same time Messi gets his amount because he wouldn't be afforded the same amount of time on the ball and also he would have to be mainly on the outside of Messi, it was the same for David Villa, it would be the same for RVP. Messi's influence over the rest of the team now will mean he receives the ball more than any other and again, rightly so.

If you're going to assert that he would score the amount (you're saying 45-50) without Messi but still at Barcelona, then again I would have to disagree but with obviously less evidence to back it up with - however, Messi is able to score so many more goals than anybody else (aside from Ronaldo) because he has the attributes to create space in tight areas (which is an inevitability for Barcelona) much faster and with much greater regularity than anybody else. Plus his finishing is often crazily good. I don't know how good RVP's was last season but I know Messi's has been somewhere around 35% in the last year.

My last point is not irrelevant at all, if I wanted to say dominate by having the ball, I'd say dominate possession. I'd have thought it's fairly obvious by how many points Real Madrid did get that I am not talking about some kind of alternative universe where they might not have converted chances, I am talking about what did happen, where they dominated matches. And that includes creating bucketloads of chances, hence the 120+ goals they scored, in the league.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

To say he had very little service here is just not true, regardless of what shitkickers we might have in the team. Everything went towards him (and the right choice it often was) - think of the goal against Norwich where Song could've played it to Gervinho but waited for longer and eventually played it to RVP, who then chipped it in. That's just a snippet of what happens when you know the best option is the same guy you always try and find.

He wouldn't get the amount of goals you assert he could get at the same time Messi gets his amount because he wouldn't be afforded the same amount of time on the ball and also he would have to be mainly on the outside of Messi, it was the same for David Villa, it would be the same for RVP. Messi's influence over the rest of the team now will mean he receives the ball more than any other and again, rightly so.

If you're going to assert that he would score the amount (you're saying 45-50) without Messi but still at Barcelona, then again I would have to disagree but with obviously less evidence to back it up with - however, Messi is able to score so many more goals than anybody else (aside from Ronaldo) because he has the attributes to create space in tight areas (which is an inevitability for Barcelona) much faster and with much greater regularity than anybody else. Plus his finishing is often crazily good. I don't know how good RVP's was last season but I know Messi's has been somewhere around 35% in the last year.

My last point is not irrelevant at all, if I wanted to say dominate by having the ball, I'd say dominate possession. I'd have thought it's fairly obvious by how many points Real Madrid did get that I am not talking about some kind of alternative universe where they might not have converted chances, I am talking about what did happen, where they dominated matches. And that includes creating bucketloads of chances, hence the 120+ goals they scored, in the league.

van persie hardly had much service last season. everything went through him yes, but little went to him in the first place. hence why him bagging 30 was a remarkable achievement. he was very clinical and made the best of scraps he was fed. the amount of times i used to sit there in front of the tv and just get completely bored and dumbstruck at the continuous sideways passing and lack of creativity in our team last season. our creativity was poor and we often relied on our DM to bail us out with some incredible through balls. apart from that, we were shocking at opening up space. i remember liverpool away when we had that smash and grab. we had 2 decent passes up to van persie all game, the cross from sagna and the through ball by song. he ended up scoring both. apart from that nothing. hence the wild celebrations.

countless times we used to berate the lack of creativity in the final third and wonder why van persie was left so isolated up top, so i dont know why you're suggesting otherwise all of a sudden. in fact going into the summer most arsenal fans agreed that an attacking midfielder was a priority which highlights the problems we had.

and surely you're not denying van persie can create space out of nothing? when he was actually given the ball he was the only player in our team that could create something out of nothing. the amount of times i used to sit there and applaud him for scoring the most unthinkable of goals. volleys, headers, twists and turns, whatever, he scored them.

im not sure how messi and van persie would fit in a team because as you say there's a lot of politics involved. but my point was purely hypothetical; its not fantasy to suggest that van persie could score 50 goals in that barca team. he scored 30 in a crap arsenal team. one of the best finishers ive seen and im more than happy to admit it, regardless of my ill-feeling towards him.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

van persie hardly had much service last season. everything went through him yes, but little went to him in the first place. hence why him bagging 30 was a remarkable achievement. he was very clinical and made the best of scraps he was fed. the amount of times i used to sit there in front of the tv and just get completely bored and dumbstruck at the continuous sideways passing and lack of creativity in our team last season. our creativity was poor and we often relied on our DM to bail us out with some incredible through balls. apart from that, we were shocking at opening up space. i remember liverpool away when we had that smash and grab. we had 2 decent passes up to van persie all game, the cross from sagna and the through ball by song. he ended up scoring both. apart from that nothing. hence the wild celebrations.

countless times we used to berate the lack of creativity in the final third and wonder why van persie was left so isolated up top, so i dont know why you're suggesting otherwise all of a sudden. in fact going into the summer most arsenal fans agreed that an attacking midfielder was a priority which highlights the problems we had.

and surely you're not denying van persie can create space out of nothing? when he was actually given the ball he was the only player in our team that could create something out of nothing. the amount of times i used to sit there and applaud him for scoring the most unthinkable of goals. volleys, headers, twists and turns, whatever, he scored them.

im not sure how messi and van persie would fit in a team because as you say there's a lot of politics involved. but my point was purely hypothetical; its not fantasy to suggest that van persie could score 50 goals in that barca team. he scored 30 in a crap arsenal team. one of the best finishers ive seen and im more than happy to admit it, regardless of my ill-feeling towards him.

http://www.eplindex.com/15004/robin-...pta-stats.html

I'm not saying things because there is no degree of truth to them. Sure we had poor games where we didn't create much and you're right to cite the Anfield game but that is no surprise, that's how it often is for us at Anfield, yet we don't lose anyway. There were wild celebrations because it was a last minute winner, surely?

The reason people wanted an attacking midfielder is to make our attacking play better but also in the hope it wouldn't mean we'd be needing to find RVP all the time and hope he can finish things.

I don't think you read what I said, I said that Messi can do it, with greater regularity than anyone (based on the attributes he has and uses more than anyone else). Watch a video compilation of all his goals, some are absolute tap-ins but a great deal are from picking up the ball and running, then chipping without breaking stride, multiple times.

You're making a 2+2=4 assumption in your hypothetical scenario and of course we're talking about a Barcelona team without Messi in it, therefore it's going to be a team that is a lot less great than it is in any other circumstance. Iniesta and Xavi do not lay chance-after-chance for him without needing to do anything, Xavi hasn't assisted him more than twice in about two years. I'm not going to doubt his finishing ability which is about clean striking, now with either foot but the likelihood of doing that 50 times in a season? I don't think it'll happen. I'm not sure he'll even beat his total from last season by much with Man Utd.

Also, with regards to Real Madrid against Barcelona in chance creation, in their most recent matches, the shots on target/off target stats are very even. Real Madrid just create theirs through going for the throat.

[-Xs-]

Messi? What a farce! Ramsey was a shoe in for this years balloon door. Unbelievable case of favouritism!

[GP]