Match Reaction v Aston Villa

[IBK]

There isn't much to figure out and there is no grand conspiracy. If Wenger has the ability to try and force up the price for the RVP deal, get the board to accept less for Cesc's deal and keep hold of Walcott even though we lose money, what is that telling you? There is a level of control there staring right at us but you're refusing to see. Again, Fergie called Wenger to negotiate the RVP deal. It really does seem like you're trying as hard as possible to fit this into a major conspiracy involving the board. Again, Fergie called Wenger to get the deal done. One manager spoke to another manger. That's a clue in how managers do business. Stan didn't call the Glazers's to push the deal through.

It's pretty simple. You've seen Wenger's reaction when people undermine him. Do you really think he'd stand for the board selling his players without his approval?

This. I honestly don't think the board are tying Wenger's hands in any way. I'll accept that he is subject to economic pressures - but my reading of it is that he imposes these on himself as much as the board imposes them. I think that the manager's philosphy has always been to pay what he believes is value for money in the transfer market, and that this - together with a self-belief that he can bring new developmental players in to fill the gap left by sales at the top - means that he is philosophical about his best players leaving rather than putting pressure on the board to cough up what they might demand to stay.

Where I am prepared to cut Wenger some slack is that I do believe that he regards himself as a custodian of the club, and I think that he is hyper aware of the effects of paying what he regards as inflated wages. But against this, I think that he is as much to blame for any lack of flexibility in this regard as he takes too many risks, pays mediocre players too much, and slavishly sticks to a policy of wage equality in the mistaken belief that this fosters squad unity/loyalty.

The fact that the board supports Wenger in his bids for potential (we pay top dollar for these inds of players - possibly more than anyone else) suggests to be that he is given more freedom by our board than most other managers, not vice versa. Kroenke has said many times that he backs Wenger to the hilt - and commentators have said that because of his lack of knowledge about the game he trusts Wenger 100% - and why not, when the guy has delivered profitability far more consistently than trophies in recent years.

At best, Wenger enjoys unrivalled power at our club, at worst, his motivations and those of the board are, IMHO identical. Unfortunately, this has resulted in the manager's acceptance of not winning things.

[Power n Glory]

Are you serious? I'm taking neither of the extreme positions. I don't believe he has control neither do I believe he has zero influence. Like any senior executive at any company he will have significant influence in some areas and very little in others. So what, do you think Fergie phoned Wenger and they set a deal and Wenger walked into the boardroom to tell them the details? Is that how it works in a big company? And before that he walked in and said, guess what guys - I have accepted less money for Fabregas. Why does a realistic picture of a business have to be a conspiracy theory?

As for the board selling players out from under him, I doubt that happens either and it's another extremely simplified view. There's a player involved too. If the general environment is one of minor or zero investment that has led to a failure to effectively compete then the players want to leave if they think they can get better elsewhere. The lack of investment is not a blatant act of selling players against the will of the manager, but it won't help keep the players at the club either, will it? This is a complex business, not a group of guys standing in various corners throwing mud at each other. And neither will it be everyone standing in the middle of the room slapping each other on the back. Dein, for example, is more than aware of that fact.

Haven't you ever experienced a work environment? People agree, disagree, collaborate and the company moves on weighted consensus with those who have invested the most having the most influence on the most important decisions. Would Kroenke get involved in the costing for toner for the photocopier? Probably not. Would he be involved in setting the overall annual budget and financial policies? I would think so. Does he consult Wenger? On some matters it would be wise to no doubt.

In the end though, it's just silly pretending Wenger runs Arsenal and there have been a lot of words expended on a completely unrealistic business scenario. Why do you guys persist? What's the purpose? Wenger isn't going to leave because wild accusations are being thrown around GW.

Yes, I am serious because the below comments seem to suggest that there is something sinister going on behind the scenes and I highly doubt that.

I wonder what was really going on behind the scenes during that particular window and not just in the last few days but the days leading up to it? That was the most rattled I have ever seen Wenger in his time at the club and I predict there'll be quite a story to tell somewhere down the road when he's free to tell it. It was also the closest I can remember him coming to openly going against the party line, with his statements about Fabregas and Nasri.

Again, we are playing with pieces of the puzzle. It doesn't make any sense at all that Wenger would try to force the price down just for the sake of it.

As far as control goes, I think Wenger has a say in what happens with his team. I doubt he gets involved with sponsorship talk, building projects and all that sort of stuff, but as far as the playing side, I assume he has a massive say and it's not extreme to suggest that.

[Niall_Quinn]

What, it's conspiracy talk to suggest the board and manager might not disclose the entire inner workings of the club in public? Or they might not be 100% in agreement the entire time and on every issue but even so might keep a united public front? It was extremely odd for Wenger to be insisting the players were staying right up until the point they walked out the door. It was extremely odd for him to say we can't be a big team if we sell our big players. Those comments didn't strike me as being harmonious. I can predict some will jump on that and claim Wenger is mad, deluded and all the rest, but is it a conspiracy to suggest he may not be mad, may not be delusional and instead didn't see eye to eye 100% with the policies of the club? In that instance at least?

So what's your take on Wenger supposedly forcing the price down on the Fabregas deal? Deliberately trying to harm the club? Mad? A secret agent for Barcelona? Spiteful? Having an affair with Fabregas? Trying to increase his fixed salary by making a profit from player sales (but why force the price down in that case)? I'm the conspiracy nutter wildly suggesting we may not know the whole story, so you tell me, what's the real reason behind Wenger's actions?

I didn't claim Wenger has no say in the playing side, I said he'd have more influence in some areas than others. Which is the same as you seem to be saying. So I agree, it's not extreme. I was pointing out that the general finances of the club (which we both seem to agree Wenger wouldn't be much involved with) could most certainly have a knock on effect even on the pitch.

[Özim]

What, it's conspiracy talk to suggest the board and manager might not disclose the entire inner workings of the club in public? Or they might not be 100% in agreement the entire time and on every issue but even so might keep a united public front? It was extremely odd for Wenger to be insisting the players were staying right up until the point they walked out the door. It was extremely odd for him to say we can't be a big team if we sell our big players. Those comments didn't strike me as being harmonious. I can predict some will jump on that and claim Wenger is mad, deluded and all the rest, but is it a conspiracy to suggest he may not be mad, may not be delusional and instead didn't see eye to eye 100% with the policies of the club? In that instance at least?

So what's your take on Wenger supposedly forcing the price down on the Fabregas deal? Deliberately trying to harm the club? Mad? A secret agent for Barcelona? Spiteful? Having an affair with Fabregas? Trying to increase his fixed salary by making a profit from player sales (but why force the price down in that case)? I'm the conspiracy nutter wildly suggesting we may not know the whole story, so you tell me, what's the real reason behind Wenger's actions?

I didn't claim Wenger has no say in the playing side, I said he'd have more influence in some areas than others. Which is the same as you seem to be saying. So I agree, it's not extreme. I was pointing out that the general finances of the club (which we both seem to agree Wenger wouldn't be much involved with) could most certainly have a knock on effect even on the pitch.

Wenger Bullsh*ts all the time, I don't find it odd that he claims players are staying all the way up until they go at all.

1) In the past he's maintained we had great spirit and togetherness (even when teammates are fighting)
2) He's claimed we still had a chance of signing someone, even when they've publicly come out and said they are waiting to get their passport and are staying in Spain
3) He's said he only looks for super super quality and yet signed players who are clearly nowhere near this level

That's just some examples of him contradicting himself, just because he says someone is staying it doesn't mean it's true, he's been caught out many times telling anything but the truth.

As for Cesc, well he's been shown to put his players above anything else....he see's himself as a dad to them that's why they all love him so much, they get everything they want out of him and he never criticises them in any way even when he should.

He even went as far as blaming the hand that feeds him when Adebayor left, so yes it's very easy to see why he'd ask us to drop the price for Cesc.

[Letters]

That's just some examples of him contradicting himself, just because he says someone is staying it doesn't mean it's true, he's been caught out many times telling anything but the truth.

And yet any time you want to back up any of your wild assertions about what Wenger believes you pull some quote out of your backside and present it as the gospel truth.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

And yet any time you want to back up any of your wild assertions about what Wenger believes you pull some quote out of your backside and present it as the gospel truth.