Is it Wenger's ego rather than his ability that has cost us?

[IBK]

Agreed. He seems to view himself as some sort of father figure with a responsibility for furthering the career of the player that outweighs his responsibility to the club. Maybe unfair but that's how it seems to me. When he loses the battle to keep the player (our board just stinks of shit) he then seems to become an agent for that player. Odd thing here is we're criticising him for doing the decent thing. But the decent thing just doesn't work in the shitty world of big business football.

...and it does somewhat go against the grain for the joint highest paid manager in the league to be earning what he does for doing the 'decent thing'. Arsenal are a big club, and to be making decisions based on footballing principles rather than what is going to win silverware smacks to me of ego. If Wenger truly wants to win things, then taking the risks he does (selling his best players; gambling on the likes of Diaby and persisting with under-performing players) suggests an attitude that says 'I know better than anyone else' - whatever the evidence to the contrary.

[IBK]

Last time I looked, Cazorla and Podolski were seasoned pro's, so I think that's a little harsh.

The difference is the price we pay for players, and that is also the difference (to a degree) in the level of player we have.

Though it could be argued that Cazorla was a snip, considering he's been one of our better "star" players. He's not Mata (don't get me wrong), but for 10mil or whatever, that's pretty good business.

PS I'm not suggesting that Podolski and Giroud weren't seasoned pro's. But as I've pointed out - relying on them as replacements for our best player - tried and tested best striker in the league was a massive punt, and one which may still backfire pretty badly.

[Ollie the Optimist]

The evidence would suggest otherwise...

sorry, but you are trying to suggest that a guy who reached the top of the english game, created the best premiership ever seen, won countless trophies would rather massage his ego by creating players then getting back to a level where he took us before?


really?

[Power n Glory]

His ego isn't big enough imo. He can take pride in developing some of the world's finest players but a real egotistical bastard wouldn't just stop there. He'd be be pushing for dominance in all competitions.

I doubt his skills as a manager and that's just the sad truth. There have been too many embarrassing results to lump it on the quality of our players.

[GP]

The evidence would suggest otherwise...

No it wouldn't.

[Niall_Quinn]

His ego isn't big enough imo. He can take pride in developing some of the world's finest players but a real egotistical bastard wouldn't just stop there. He'd be be pushing for dominance in all competitions.

I doubt his skills as a manager and that's just the sad truth. There have been too many embarrassing results to lump it on the quality of our players.

I don't doubt his skill and the results are very much in his favour. Plainly our seasonal goal as a club is to achieve a top 4 spot and the revenues that brings. Nobody is better than Wenger at hitting that goal. What I disagree with is the worth attached to that goal. Maybe 3-4 years back I would have said 4th place was an achievement, but only on the basis we then went on to try and better that the following year. This is where I differ as a fan with the agenda of the club. I couldn't give a shit what the money men think or do. I just expect them to earn their wages. Their role should be to keep us competitive despite the spending of city and the chavs. They don't do this, they are failures. So instead they claim it is impossible to compete (like Utd) and they make a trophy out of being second best. What a bunch of losers. Wenger seems to have bought into this, or at least his interests coincide. It can never be good enough for a fan when there team is second best. What's the point of sport if second best is acceptable? This is what Wenger has forgotten. He's our very own Anakin Skywalker.

[Niall_Quinn]

...and it does somewhat go against the grain for the joint highest paid manager in the league to be earning what he does for doing the 'decent thing'. Arsenal are a big club, and to be making decisions based on footballing principles rather than what is going to win silverware smacks to me of ego. If Wenger truly wants to win things, then taking the risks he does (selling his best players; gambling on the likes of Diaby and persisting with under-performing players) suggests an attitude that says 'I know better than anyone else' - whatever the evidence to the contrary.

He gets paid what he gets paid because he makes so much money for the stinking bunch of whores in the boardroom. Considering their goals have nothing to do with football, other than as a means to exploit a captive market, of course they will handsomely reward the guy who wittingly or unwittingly, willingly or unwillingly services their agenda in the most efficient and profitable manner.

In the end though, and we don't know enough about most things to be sure about anything, we can look at the sale of RvP to Utd. You don't really need to look much beyond that to see what the primary motivation is with the club and our manager. For this to ever happen they all must have lost focus on what football is all about and they all must have long since lost their respect for the fans.

[Power n Glory]

sorry, but you are trying to suggest that a guy who reached the top of the english game, created the best premiership ever seen, won countless trophies would rather massage his ego by creating players then getting back to a level where he took us before?


really?

If he was interested in silverware he'd go for the FA Cup and Carling Cup.

[IBK]

sorry, but you are trying to suggest that a guy who reached the top of the english game, created the best premiership ever seen, won countless trophies would rather massage his ego by creating players then getting back to a level where he took us before?


really?

You're living in the past. People change. Wenger has. If you and others think Wenger, with his policies/decisions in the last 8 years has had realistic ambitions to win silverware then you are on something. Personally, I find it difficult to believe that he is a shit manager. IMO he is either arrogant enough to believe that he can win things while at the same time allowing his best players to leave, or he is making the club subservient to his own principles/beliefs. Either way, his ego has hurt us.

There is a reason why he is no longer a winning manager - an obsession with producing players seems as good a theory to me as anything else.

[IBK]

No it wouldn't.

So turn it around. Question - does Wenger have an ego? - Undoubtedly. So why would he put up with failure/the sale of his players? The logical explanation would be a different agenda.