The Wish They Were All Dead Tory Cunt Thread

[Power n Glory]

In your other post you changed the subject slightly.
Some people object to things like CCTV or monitoring of emails "on principle". I think that's a fair enough objection but personally I don't care because there isn't a person sitting there watching my every move or reading all my messages. The level of surveillance doesn't stop me going where I want or writing what I want. It doesn't stop you or NQ either.
The key point is this is all fine if we are operating within the law and that is where I agree with some of that other post. The direction of travel in the law is of concern. I don't think it will ever become illegal for me to go to church but yes, it could become illegal to preach openly. I don't believe we will end up in a 1984 scenario but I do think there is cause for concern. I don't think this is a simple issue though. People have been arrested for things they have said on Twitter but should people be able to say or threaten people how they like in the name of free speech?

Surveillance and freedom are linked. The problem I see with your post is that you're unable to connect the two or see the wider picture. It shouldn't be a surprise considering the years we've debated on here at Arsenal and Wenger. It's as if you have to see it in front of you before believing. Ironic considering your faith. As NQ's post points out, you're on the side that don't realise what they've signed up to until it has a direct consequences. Also, if the Bible says nobody knows when wheb judgement day is, how you can be so confident that you won't see a 1984 scenerio in your lifetime? How do you know it won't ever become illegal for you to go to church despite the Bible saying all Christians will be persecuted for what they believe?

[Niall_Quinn]

One event can change things for a lot of people. We consent to them now in the name of security but they can quite easily switch the focus. It's definitely something to think about but I'm guessing some don't despite the warnings being thrown out. Letters response shouldn't surprise me at to be honest. It explains a lot.

This security thing makes me laugh too. It's like a kid constantly poking a wasp nest until, lo and behold, a security problem arises. Almost every strand from every problem can be traced back to the same sorts who then claim they need to secure us against the consequences of their actions. In the case of terrorism (their's not ours) we need to know what everyone is doing 24/7 because there are baddies out there who, "hate us because we are free." It makes your head hurt. The plot is less credible than Harry Potter. And our guardians are the same lot who we know for a fact have lied over and over and over and over again, relentlessly. Nobody would buy any of it in everyday life, but stick a government label on it and suddenly the incredible is not only credible but, regrettably, essential. This tells me it is fear fuelling the complacency and strained credulity, not rational thought processes. And even when the outlier twigs, the justification becomes the question - what can we do about it? And the immediate answer is, nothing. 60 million people can do nothing about a few freaks wrecking the place. Oh really?

Fear then. In the newspapers, on the TV, in our films, seeping through our dying cultures. Divide and rule, terror threat levels, nuclear war, the "threat" of nature itself. And we're not permitted to stand against it as men because, you know, being male is sexist. Not that sex exists, there's no such thing as gender. Unless it's a commodity that can be sold. And there's no cynicism at all, really. This is all normal. It can't be any other way and everyone knows that people are bad by nature. What fine lessons we have been taught by the people looking our of for our best interests - provided you ignore the fact they get wealthier by the day on the back of our labour. The same guardians who brought us JFK, reds under the bed, the Vietnam war and all the way through to 911. Open and shut cases that helped drive the fear and division and would only ever be questioned by insane conspiracy theorists. It's all just as it seems, it's all just as it needs to be. And we are safe. Total subjugation to a bunch of inbred, warmonger leeches is a such a small price to pay.

This is what Jesus taught us after all. When you are confronted by evil - comply.

[GP]

Taxation is theft.

[Letters]

Surveillance and freedom are linked. The problem I see with your post is that you're unable to connect the two or see the wider picture.

*sigh*
Obviously I can there is a potential link. You are a patronising arse sometimes.
But surveillance has been in place for decades, online surveillance is new because the internet is new but, so far, it has had no effect on my freedoms. Or yours.
There's CCTV everywhere but I go where I want, online talk is monitored but I say what I want.
COULD it curtail my freedoms? Of course it could, but that would involve quite an oppressive regime which I don't believe we will see in this country.
NQ may claim it's already here but if so then I'd ask again what actual freedoms he is denied as a result of surveillance.

how you can be so confident that you won't see a 1984 scenerio in your lifetime? How do you know it won't ever become illegal for you to go to church despite the Bible saying all Christians will be persecuted for what they believe?

I can't know for sure any more than you can know that it will. I guess that could happen and the direction of travel of some laws in this country are worrying. But in the UK's modern history, stretching back hundreds of years since parliament was formed, we have been a democracy. It's a pretty crappy form of democracy we have but it's a form nonetheless, it's never been an oppressive dictatorship which has curtailed people's freedom of movement or speech. The 'never' may be my ignorance of British history, an admitted weak spot, but certainly not in the last 100 years or so and if anything one could argue we have more freedom now in certain areas - as late as the 60s simply being in a homosexual relationship was illegal. Now they can marry and adopt. There are lots of equality laws in place these days that (in theory) prevent discrimination. I think some of the political correctness has gone too far but I don't see any trend which means I suddenly won't be able to go where I want or say what I want. Unless what I want to say is to scream abuse or threats at people online but I'm not sure people should be able to do that. Obviously there has to be some common sense around that.

[Niall_Quinn]

Taxation is theft.

Ignorance is no defence.

[Niall_Quinn]

*sigh*
Obviously I can there is a potential link. You are a patronising arse sometimes.
But surveillance has been in place for decades, online surveillance is new because the internet is new but, so far, it has had no effect on my freedoms. Or yours.
There's CCTV everywhere but I go where I want, online talk is monitored but I say what I want.
COULD it curtail my freedoms? Of course it could, but that would involve quite an oppressive regime which I don't believe we will see in this country.
NQ may claim it's already here but if so then I'd ask again what actual freedoms he is denied as a result of surveillance.



I can't know for sure any more than you can know that it will. I guess that could happen and the direction of travel of some laws in this country are worrying. But in the UK's modern history, stretching back hundreds of years since parliament was formed, we have been a democracy. It's a pretty crappy form of democracy we have but it's a form nonetheless, it's never been an oppressive dictatorship which has curtailed people's freedom of movement or speech. The 'never' may be my ignorance of British history, an admitted weak spot, but certainly not in the last 100 years or so and if anything one could argue we have more freedom now in certain areas - as late as the 60s simply being in a homosexual relationship was illegal. Now they can marry and adopt. There are lots of equality laws in place these days that (in theory) prevent discrimination. I think some of the political correctness has gone too far but I don't see any trend which means I suddenly won't be able to go where I want or say what I want. Unless what I want to say is to scream abuse or threats at people online but I'm not sure people should be able to do that. Obviously there has to be some common sense around that.

My guess, he's not just judging things on this conversation alone. He's taking into account many, many conversations that exhibit the same tendencies. You can't be patronising on the 500th pass. By that stage patience is the virtue to aim for.

[GP]

*sigh*
Obviously I can there is a potential link. You are a patronising arse sometimes.
But surveillance has been in place for decades, online surveillance is new because the internet is new but, so far, it has had no effect on my freedoms. Or yours.
There's CCTV everywhere but I go where I want, online talk is monitored but I say what I want.
COULD it curtail my freedoms? Of course it could, but that would involve quite an oppressive regime which I don't believe we will see in this country.
NQ may claim it's already here but if so then I'd ask again what actual freedoms he is denied as a result of surveillance.



I can't know for sure any more than you can know that it will. I guess that could happen and the direction of travel of some laws in this country are worrying. But in the UK's modern history, stretching back hundreds of years since parliament was formed, we have been a democracy. It's a pretty crappy form of democracy we have but it's a form nonetheless, it's never been an oppressive dictatorship which has curtailed people's freedom of movement or speech. The 'never' may be my ignorance of British history, an admitted weak spot, but certainly not in the last 100 years or so and if anything one could argue we have more freedom now in certain areas - as late as the 60s simply being in a homosexual relationship was illegal. Now they can marry and adopt. There are lots of equality laws in place these days that (in theory) prevent discrimination. I think some of the political correctness has gone too far but I don't see any trend which means I suddenly won't be able to go where I want or say what I want. Unless what I want to say is to scream abuse or threats at people online but I'm not sure people should be able to do that. Obviously there has to be some common sense around that.

[Niall_Quinn]

Nothing wrong with democracy. It is working eaxctly as intended.

[Globalgunner]

Democracy is only whatever the majority define it to be. The UK has no written constitution, so you can never take anything for granted. If 50.1% of the people can be conned into believing that eating shit is what is best for you, then who cares about the other 49.9%. People need to be vigilant and not so blase about who they elect to represent them. They may end up not representing you at all.

Then again I always have believed that people in large groups get more stupid as the group gets bigger. Mob mentality drowns out individual acuity, every time.

[Niall_Quinn]

Weinstein is the sensational treat to distract from Ted Heath. Regardless, the latter goes to show there are still some good coppers out there.