The founding charter of Hamas calls for the genocide of jews. Corbyn has called that group "friends" before. Therefore the anti semite claims have some ground to them. He has shared platforms with several terrorist groups. People are going to question that.Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
However to be fair to Corbyn, he's the only one of the four to come out and say "vote for me, and i will do x y and z" the others have just said "don't vote for him". If you ask most people what the policies of the four are, most could give you corbyns, i doubt many could give any from the others. He will win the contest and labour will be finished. As a Tory, its good news for us, however you do need a good opposition to govern effectively. Labour under Corbyn along with the SNP are not effective opposition
"Good opposition" meaning the same core policies regardless of the party, with a few theatrical props thrown in for variety. Genuinely good opposition would be opposition that understands and practices the principles of democracy (imperfect as it is) rather than the New Labour and Tory understanding of democracy as a politically saleable vehicle that can deliver authoritarianism and elitism.
This isn't about manifestos and political ideals any more, it's a much more basic struggle of right verses wrong, equality versus inequality, equity in law versus the tyranny of selectively applied law, justice versus injustice. And New Labour is very much on the right side (in terms of position rather than morality) of that equation and is every bit as wicked and abusive as the Tory proxy.
As for Hamas, Israel funded and assisted in it's creation to weaken Arafat and the PLO's grip on the Palestinians. You'll find that Israel is at the heart of everything rotten in that area, and much beyond. But you have to look beyond the mainstream (Jewish) media to find the details. That Hamas morphed into an anti-Israeli movement is a result of extensive and unrelenting Israeli brutality in the region. In this country we would react similarly, if not worse, if we were hemmed in by a particularly aggressive and anti-humanitarian and racist enemy. Indeed we had some pretty choice words and imagery aimed at the Germans and we had no qualms when it came to fire-bombing their civilians. But anyway, you should understand that Hamas did not begin with the aim of wiping the Israeli aggressor off the map, things were far more cooperative at the outset. A history that has become inconvenient but remains history nonetheless.
And Corbyn, if he supports Hamas then fine. Two sides, he supports one of them, the Zionist lapdog Cameron and the worthies in New Labour support the other. The term terrorism is only ever applied to the other guy anyway, our extensive terrorism instead goes by the names liberation, regime change, security and so on. If there are terrorists then all those who kill and oppress for political ends qualify and none more so than that warmonger nation the United States which has been at war 90% of the time since it was founded (that's a statistic most likely erring on the low side).
To draw the conclusion that Corbyn must hate Jews because he supports the notion of rights and life and property for the Palestinian people therefore implies the likes of Cameron and Blair and the other loud mouths hate Arabs because they support the similar rights of Israel. Israel being the nation that bombed its way into existence by blowing up British troops, by the way. So let's also say this latter school of harpies by extension supports the killing of British troops. It's a fair stretch given their own assumptions.
But of course nothing is as simple as that, even when the British establishment wants it to be.
Has anyone asked Corbyn if her hates Jews? He seems like a guy who would give a straight answer, unlike (as you correctly point out) the cunts arranging against him.
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Well I've always thought being human was overrated :-)
The other three are indeed Miscreants, but I consider them damage limitation candidates. The car crash is coming, do you put on a seatbelt on or expect divine intervention.
Why do you want to limit damage to the establishment? You either tackle them now or leave it to your kids. There has to be a starting point to the fightback. The media is treating a politician with differing views form the mainstream as the apocalypse, but we don't exactly have the leader who will guide us to salvation in front of us. It's just a politician who is saying hey, I have an idea, let's listen to the electorate. An extreme and novel and even dangerous idea in political terms, I agree. I can see why the cunt class is excited and worried. But the media whores need to have a little think. For a candidate like Corbyn to get within a million miles of victory in an already stage managed process like this is the real story. It must mean the vast majority of the Labour party, and therefore a truly significant section of the public at large, are serious about breaking this one-sided status quo. Not before time. For so many reasons, how could it have continued? We have a whole history book full of the final chapters of approved and establishment regimes, it always ends the same way. Millions dead. So why not try something different? How much danger can there be given we already know the outcome of what the cunt class is offering, again, yawn?
Corbyn may be a little lightweight and he may have wishy-washy views and policies in comparison to what is actually required to bring about social justice, but at the very least you can say he's not a step in the wrong direction. Not much but something. Not sure he or anyone can stop the car crash that's coming, but at least we should be able to say we made a try for the brake. And I wouldn't mind running down a few Tories on the way to the cliff edge.
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Jeremy Corbyn has my first preference along with Angela Eagle. (Yes I'm a member of the Labour Party)
Also Gordon Brown's speech today was brilliant. It's such a shame he was hounded out by the right wing media.
Last edited by adzzzbatch; 16-08-2015 at 08:25 PM.
I think with respect, that we would be approaching this from such different angles that actually debating this would be the same as being in a living room trying to have a conversation with someone in the kitchen who has the kettle on and the washing machine going.
Please don't take that as patronising, because I wouldn't presume to think I could talk down to you and come across as anything but stupid.....I actually find you're viewpoints fascinating, original and inciteful....but in terms of affecting change my approach would be hammer and chisel and yours is bulldozer.
Corrected you there.....
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I prefer cutting to the chase and getting what needs to be done, done. In the past I would have agreed with you, or more like in relation to the past I'd be in agreement. Centuries spent slowly chipping out rights from the stone block of monarchy and the then replacement monarchy called parliament and more recently the naked plutocracy. Slavery, votes for the non-gentrified classes, women's emancipation, education, healthcare. The hammer and chisel way was better, although several bulldozers were used at key moments to get the end results if you examine closely. It has been a steady if not desperately slow progress, but progress nonetheless. Since 2001 that progress has halted and everything that was fought for in previous generations is in full retreat. The establishment is not conceding an inch this time, they are in full on war mode taking back they ground they always considered was their own by birth and they are unabashed, out in the open. No more hidden agendas, it's in our faces. They are not here to have a polite conversation or negotiate. The fight is now whether people want it or not or are ready for it or not.
Blair was the reasoned middle ground, in terms of the peoples relationship to that devious snake. The end result was the catastrophic destruction of a party founded by workers who put actual flesh and bones on the line. Corbyn is a first step in admitting that grievous error and dishonour and also a tiny indication that maybe not everybody will meekly walk into the cattle trucks this time. In fact not everyone walked meekly the last time either and many stood their ground in the heat of one of the fiercest conflicts in history. Most died, just as surely as those who submitted, but some survived to see the immense enemy they were up against come crushing down. Okay, their enemy was replaced by something even more foul and from a deeper tier of hell, but fight them as they come and maybe one day they will stop coming.
Btw, I am not a Labour Party member and nor would I ever be. There can be no representation while political parties exist. But there has to be a start and a mildly raised eyebrow in the form of Corbyn is the best we can hope for right now, until people are ready or finally desperate enough to do the right thing.
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Corrected you there.....
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