The Wish They Were All Dead Tory Cunt Thread

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Hmm I think more people are apathetic than fearful or having an inate deference to those in charge

It's like witnessing child poverty in Africa on the news, people think "oh that's terrible" and go on eating their dinner

I'm the same, the only difference between me and you is that you think we've all been duped by a nefarious elite. I think the nefarious elite could be anyone of us, the system we live in is a product of human nature to be acquisitive and to be controlling and deceptive in furtherance of that greed.

I'm not morally better than someone like Cameron's father even if I lie to myself that I think I would be, idealistically I'd like to think I'd pay my taxes and make money through honest means. But in reality in the same position I couldn't say I'd not do the same even though I'm sure I'd think it was wrong my innate avarice and instincts for self betterment would override my moral compass.

[Niall_Quinn]

Hmm I think more people are apathetic than fearful or having an inate deference to those in charge

It's like witnessing child poverty in Africa on the news, people think "oh that's terrible" and go on eating their dinner

I'm the same, the only difference between me and you is that you think we've all been duped by a nefarious elite. I think the nefarious elite could be anyone of us, the system we live in is a product of human nature to be acquisitive and to be controlling and deceptive in furtherance of that greed.

I'm not morally better than someone like Cameron's father even if I lie to myself that I think I would be, idealistically I'd like to think I'd pay my taxes and make money through honest means. But in reality in the same position I couldn't say I'd not do the same even though I'm sure I'd think it was wrong my innate avarice and instincts for self betterment would override my moral compass.

That's a sad indictment of yourself. Certainly not an indictment that applies to me based purely on my membership of a particular species. I don't believe anyone has been duped. You can't be duped in the absence of pretence or subterfuge. It's under your nose, nothing is being hidden. It's brash. Unrepentant. Provocative - come and have a go if you think you're hard enough. They've framed the range of responses open to you, that may be the only underhand aspect. And people tend to accept the bait thus disenfranchising themselves in the process. For example: How can you associate morality with submission to theft and violence? Surely you can find a genuine distinction between yourself and a repugnant cunt from the Cameron line? Why use tax as an example? As for starving Africans, how can starving yourself assist them? Of course, go ahead and eat your dinner - the two things are in no way connected. Thinking outside their generously provided box, what's usually the reason for starvation on Africa? Abdication of personal responsibility in preference and deference to authority.

The notion mankind is inherently evil is too convenient an excuse for a lack of courage and personal responsibility. I don't buy into that easy submission. Would you make a personal sacrifice for your own child? Your wife? Your friend? Your neighbour? And if so, would you suppose other human beings might do the same? In what percentage and for what purpose? Is it a rarity? Is it unnatural in some way? Are we civilised or not? Could our interactions with each other be based on something other than authoritarianism or is that impossible? It authority the basis for our daily interactions? Do you need permission to be a human being? When a minority behaves in a reprehensible manner does it automatically follow the entire species is without virtue? Or could it be that authority constrains what is natural in us?

Long before authoritarianism came cooperation or else none of these social structures could have arisen in the first place. Just because we took a wrong turn doesn't mean we are lost forever.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

My point about African children isn't about suggesting people might starve themselves, but there is a difference between thinking something is bad and having an urge to change it.
People don't in the majority watch the news about such things and feel compelled to donate to charity or become aid workers.
What i'm saying is that the first thing is there, but the urge to change it is not.....and i don't necessarily put that down to brain washing i put that down to either not caring enough or as you yourself have suggested that there isn't the will power to intervene.
I don't think mankind is inherently evil either, because evil is far too subjective a word.....i would say that human beings are inherently greedy, selfish and weak willed and that can be responsible for "evil acts".
Nozick for example would think of Cooperation as a form of compromise, an alliance based on shared concerns and desires (such as security) and Thomas Hobbes would brand your authoritarianism as the Leviathan the reason for that social cohesion to perpetuate itself.

At the risk of proving Goodwin's Law, the Nuremberg trials tried to brand Evil as some kind of Exceptional trait concentrated in the high ranking echelons of the Third Reich, i'm not inclined to believe the most greedy and abusive of us are some kind of phenomenon as there is something specific about them that makes them act in a way that the rest of us simply would not even though we've made ourselves prisoner to the consequences of such behaviour.

Evil is a banal concept, the simple fact is people generally will do what they think they can get away with in the pursuit of self enrichment, they are not not in their own minds behaving in an overtly Evil way they are just able to excuse or justify their behaviour with context, who but the most conscientious villain considers themselves a villain?.

[Letters]

HOW exactly are we to change 'the system'? What, in practice, can we do?

[Niall_Quinn]

My point about African children isn't about suggesting people might starve themselves, but there is a difference between thinking something is bad and having an urge to change it.
People don't in the majority watch the news about such things and feel compelled to donate to charity or become aid workers.
What i'm saying is that the first thing is there, but the urge to change it is not.....and i don't necessarily put that down to brain washing i put that down to either not caring enough or as you yourself have suggested that there isn't the will power to intervene.
I don't think mankind is inherently evil either, because evil is far too subjective a word.....i would say that human beings are inherently greedy, selfish and weak willed and that can be responsible for "evil acts".
Nozick for example would think of Cooperation as a form of compromise, an alliance based on shared concerns and desires (such as security) and Thomas Hobbes would brand your authoritarianism as the Leviathan the reason for that social cohesion to perpetuate itself.

At the risk of proving Goodwin's Law, the Nuremberg trials tried to brand Evil as some kind of Exceptional trait concentrated in the high ranking echelons of the Third Reich, i'm not inclined to believe the most greedy and abusive of us are some kind of phenomenon as there is something specific about them that makes them act in a way that the rest of us simply would not even though we've made ourselves prisoner to the consequences of such behaviour.

Evil is a banal concept, the simple fact is people generally will do what they think they can get away with in the pursuit of self enrichment, they are not not in their own minds behaving in an overtly Evil way they are just able to excuse or justify their behaviour with context, who but the most conscientious villain considers themselves a villain?.

Again I don't buy into the generalisation that people are out for themselves and will push as much as possible for their own benefit. We'd never have become civilised if that was the case. That's if we are actually civilised I suppose. The fundamental operation of the family unit suggests (and demonstrates) something more than exclusive selfishness. Which is why the family has been under relentless threat by the state of course. I assume neither of us is using the term evil in the religious sense. By evil I mean wittingly causing harm to others, encompassing all degrees of all negative emotions and motivations. A blanket term, so yes banal in that respect. I can appreciate the incredulity you have for the idea we've allowed ourselves to become entrapped by an "evil" minority. It's very hard to believe, the ultimate humiliation. And if this is the inevitable consequence of authority or the human condition and people and power are incompatible then let's at least think about doing away with authority. One way or the other it can never serve a beneficial purpose. My argument is not that there is an automatically effective alternative but that we should at least be able to entertain the notion of an alternative. I'm not sure many people can do that any more or even want to. So when 11 million pages of evidence fly under the nose of society it would be encouraging and progressive for people to ask what they can do about it, rather than ask somebody else to do something about it (who will they be asking, after all?). That's why I despise authority and hierarchy. It allows and encourages abdication. When you vote you are essentially refusing to participate in your own affairs or take responsibility for your inaction.

[GP]

HOW exactly are we to change 'the system'? What, in practice, can we do?

Build a wall, make the Spurs pay for it.

[Letters]

[Niall_Quinn]

HOW exactly are we to change 'the system'? What, in practice, can we do?

Letters, you are spectacularly brilliant. I finish typing my response, hit submit and there you are. "HOW exactly..."

[Niall_Quinn]

Build a wall, make the Spurs pay for it.

Wall just got 10 feet higher.

[Letters]

Letters, you are spectacularly brilliant. I finish typing my response, hit submit and there you are. "HOW exactly..."

Um...thanks, I think. Although I'm not sure you've answered my question.


I don't think everyone who goes into politics is 'evil' or doing so for selfish purposes. I think most people get into it because they want to make a difference. I guess the bigger you get to the top of the tree though the more money is involved, the bigger the incentives and potential for corruption and people are inherently greedy.