The Wish They Were All Dead Tory Cunt Thread

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Well I'm not sure you're doing the same thing as Pilger, but you are doing the same thing as you accuse Pilger of doing.

I didn't say living in the west is the same as living in the east. I said in principle there's no difference. The difference is in the method. Both east and west are domains of extremist regimes. To find the extremism you have to look at the conditions that have become normalised. Such as the great inequality between the rich and the poor. Condemning a whole sector of a society to live as slaves with no hope of reprieve beyond a one in a million lottery shot while a minority live off the backs of rest and make rules for the rest they don't follow themselves - what does it remind you of? In fact, what is it? It's your eastern regime but without the term communist applied. Of course the poor in the west are free to say what they want, especially considering nobody is listening.

Did you see the EU ordering the major online service providers to crack down on "fake news" within 24 hours? Well hello China.

No i didn't say you did say it was the same, i said you believed it to be equivalent (which would be the same as saying different methodology but in principle the same)

If you receive a visit from the security services tonight who want a word with you for criticising what i would agree is a stupid idea to crack down on fake news (fake news wouldn't be a business without people stupid enough to believe what it reports) than i will somewhat concede your point.

Indeed make yourself public and well known and criticise the way the way Western governments work and the worst you can expect is to be ignored, or indeed in this country maybe subject to our ridiculous libel laws (which i think is intolerable, but you won't be arrested or found to have met with an "accident")

And indeed if the neo liberal globalism you so despise was as irreversible as the systems in China and Russia, these populist right victories would have never happened but they did....I don't like the fact that they did because i think the people who will be in power are even worse than the people before them but the fact that they did (and you celebrated that they did) rather dislodges this unalterable regime lodged within the system as they won within the system rather than violent revolution.

Like I say you will find I agree with you about at least a fair amount of what is wrong within western democracy, but you are going to have all your work in front of you for me to ever believe there is an equivalence to eastern regimes.

[Niall_Quinn]

No i didn't say you did say it was the same, i said you believed it to be equivalent (which would be the same as saying different methodology but in principle the same)

If you receive a visit from the security services tonight who want a word with you for criticising what i would agree is a stupid idea to crack down on fake news (fake news wouldn't be a business without people stupid enough to believe what it reports) than i will somewhat concede your point.

Indeed make yourself public and well known and criticise the way the way Western governments work and the worst you can expect is to be ignored, or indeed in this country maybe subject to our ridiculous libel laws (which i think is intolerable, but you won't be arrested or found to have met with an "accident")

And indeed if the neo liberal globalism you so despise was as irreversible as the systems in China and Russia, these populist right victories would have never happened but they did....I don't like the fact that they did because i think the people who will be in power are even worse than the people before them but the fact that they did (and you celebrated that they did) rather dislodges this unalterable regime lodged within the system as they won within the system rather than violent revolution.

Like I say you will find I agree with you about at least a fair amount of what is wrong within western democracy, but you are going to have all your work in front of you for me to ever believe there is an equivalence to eastern regimes.

You keep going back to freedom of speech as if that's the be all and end all of liberty. I talked about the underlying slavery that props up the western system but you didn't mention that. And indeed, if you are unfortunate enough not to be one of the inherited or otherwise advantaged few, try giving up the hamster wheel and you'll soon find thugs at your door. They won't lock you up, because that costs them some of the money they steal. They'd just kick you on the street to let you starve and freeze to death slowly. In the west you play the game or the game fucks you up with a finality that is rarely recoverable. We're used to it so it appears normal. But if you purge your mind of all the euphemisms and take an objective look, it's a complete fucking horror story - depending on where you are placed in the pecking order. And it's made worse by the fact you can't see, touch, gut your oppressor. In the east at least you know which fucker is doing you in. But the similarities are undeniable. Generation after generation consigned to the nothingness of service to the state. Whether a flat screen TV and a mobile phone is compensation enough, I don't know. It appears to be.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

You keep going back to freedom of speech as if that's the be all and end all of liberty. I talked about the underlying slavery that props up the western system but you didn't mention that. And indeed, if you are unfortunate enough not to be one of the inherited or otherwise advantaged few, try giving up the hamster wheel and you'll soon find thugs at your door. They won't lock you up, because that costs them some of the money they steal. They'd just kick you on the street to let you starve and freeze to death slowly. In the west you play the game or the game fucks you up with a finality that is rarely recoverable. We're used to it so it appears normal. But if you purge your mind of all the euphemisms and take an objective look, it's a complete fucking horror story - depending on where you are placed in the pecking order. And it's made worse by the fact you can't see, touch, gut your oppressor. In the east at least you know which fucker is doing you in. But the similarities are undeniable. Generation after generation consigned to the nothingness of service to the state. Whether a flat screen TV and a mobile phone is compensation enough, I don't know. It appears to be.

Again like I say its relative, are you currently afraid for your life?. If so you're very laid back considering

You find what you see as the imposition of governance as chafing, frustrating, the concept of cheap distractions being offered to people to divert from the growing gap between rich and poor (actually I'm not unsympathetic to that).

But I suspect your not living day to day waiting for the knock on the door to come, because of what you've said or what you believe or matters outside your control like what your ethnicity is or your sexual orientation.

I'm not going to pretend that large corporations don't wield far, far too much influence and buy off politicians so that they don't make any changes that benefit ordinary people and that media owned by rich business people try to convince ordinary people they shouldn't want those things to begin with.

But ultimately freedom of speech is an important factor when people can speak out against it, even if the people who have benefited from doing so are those who want to perpetuate the cycle but pretend not to.

That human beings are in anyway capable of such callous means of accquisitive behaviour let alone the torture and subjugation of others in what you consider different but otherwise equivalent states should in my view make you think twice about what you consider equitable.

Everything you hate can be summed up as the state, the state is not something seperate of human beings it is a construct of human beings if it so irredeemably malign, than what does it say about human beings. I think in all of us there is that instinct to want to harm or do wrong to others, some feel it in emotional states of mind and some feel it as naturally as breathing. And yet despite that I should feel comfortable with these people having ultimate Liberty, what would prevent the proliferation of murder, corruption which you charge the state is ultimately responsible for in all cases?.

[Kano]

It would be interesting to know what your definition of freedom of speech is Herbert.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

It would be interesting to know what your definition of freedom of speech is Herbert.

There is only a single definition, what I imagine you're asking is how far do I think it should be allowed to go. And ultimately I think people should be able to say whatever they want with the exception of that which directly incites others to go out and harm others.

Now what do I mean by that

Calling someone a "traitor" for instance doesn't count, "saying this person is a cunt and I hope they die" doesn't count. Saying "I call upon others to kill this person" does in my book count.

[Kano]

I was going to respond in more detail but kind of lost momentum and can't really be fucked now. Maybe I'll come back to this at some point. Unsurprisingly, I'm not in total agreeance with you.

[Niall_Quinn]

How sad, you poor whore.

Just to be clear, they are leading with Clinton's name as a desperate attempt to discredit this scandal. The Podesta stuff, him and his deviant brother, that's real. We know it's real because he personally emailed all that shit. No theories, no anonymous sources. Just the original source material.

So the increasingly obviously paid mainstream shill Colbert and all his fellow travellers can continue to throw Clinton under the bus in the hope this all goes away. But this genie is out of the bottle. That's why they want to ban all web sites that are not on their non-approved list. Good luck with that. Just goes to show how little they understand how the Internet works.

[Niall_Quinn]

There's a new definition for desperation.

[GP]

[Niall_Quinn]

So is she dead or not?