World Class Debate

[Power n Glory]

World class - a stupid and misleading term. Apparently some kid called James Wilson(?) is now world class after one game. Media whores and their stupid shit.

Top tier is probably better, the top level of players that we all know stand above the rest. Pele, Maradona, Messi, van Basten, Zidane, Henry, Bergkamp, fat Ronaldo, queer Ronaldo, Ronaldinho etc, etc. We know who they are.

Toure? Drogba - Don't be clowns please, these guys aren't anywhere near that level. They are/ were very effective as the blunt trauma instruments in billionaire teams and they are good players in their own right as they could probably replicate some of that effectiveness wherever they went. But let's keep them on the level where they belong, along with Wilson and all the other media chip wrapping sensationalism. I've even heard people say Rooney is at the top level. That's how ludicrous it has become.

You're getting football legends mixed up with World Class. There is world class and then there is the upper echelon talent. It's debatable whether Henry and Bergkamp should be in that list because they've never won Ballon d'or and World Player of the Year awards when everyone else in that list has. But that's another debate.

If Yaya and Drogba aren't World Class, what's Ozil, Cesc and RVP?

[Niall_Quinn]

Your a fucking retard if you don't think Yaya and Drogba are world class. One of the best players in that generation for their positions and single handedly won plenty of games for their respective clubs time and time again.

Also, since when did world class suddenly need to mean best player of all time?

Fucking retard? Like somebody who's too thick to comprehend basic language, for example? Welcome to the club then.

That's why I chucked away the dumb term world class, which is pretty much applied to anyone who has one decent game these days, and compared these two to the genuine top talents in the game. But if you really need that tag to stick, then sure, they are world class. Same as this Wilson guy, same as Rooney, same as the 10,001 others that could be trotted out. Didn't say they had to be the best in the world, just mentioned they aren't within a mile of that genuinely elite group. Which quite obviously they aren't. But world class? Sure, why not?

[I am invisible]

You're getting football legends mixed up with World Class. There is world class and then there is the upper echelon talent. It's debatable whether Henry and Bergkamp should be in that list because they've never won Ballon d'or and World Player of the Year awards when everyone else in that list has. But that's another debate.

If Yaya and Drogba aren't World Class, what's Ozil, Cesc and RVP?

Agree with this, although to be fair I think NQ is (more or less) saying the same thing, just with different lables? Either way we're talking one class of extremely good footballers, and then another, even more exclusive / special class of talent beyond that...

Edit: a simple test for 'world-class' for me is whether a player would walk into most top sides in the world - the level above that I would reserve for players who make such an impression that you'll be talking about them for the rest of your life...

[Niall_Quinn]

You're getting football legends mixed up with World Class. There is world class and then there is the upper echelon talent. It's debatable whether Henry and Bergkamp should be in that list because they've never won Ballon d'or and World Player of the Year awards when everyone else in that list has. But that's another debate.

If Yaya and Drogba aren't World Class, what's Ozil, Cesc and RVP?

Listen to it. "Yaya" - our mate. Look at this place, half the posts glorifying our fucking mortal enemies, the other half slagging our own club. If one of our players spouted the shite Toure did he'd be crucified. The twat has a moan that racists have stopped the world from proclaiming him God's gift, but never mind "Yaya", plenty of Arsenal fans ready to leap to the defence. But that's an irritable aside because it eventually gets sickening listening to the shite that goes on here.

Henry and Bergkamp being questioned? That says it all. Obviously no need to comment on that. The other three? No, I don't place them at the top level if we are talking sensibly. Good players for sure. However, if we are using the "Yaya" and Drogba standard, yes, Cesc, RvP and Ozil are absolute world class. Better than Wilson and Bent, even better than Hart. Peter Schmeichel? Not so sure - he hasn't really been in the papers of late has he? So NOT world class.

Look, unlike that cunt apologist bloke, I know you are trying to be fairly reasonable. Fair enough. I guess I've had enough of the direct and implied slagging that goes on here related to our club. I hate the way it aligns with the media bullshit as if that is somehow normal and valid. Always the same twats jumping in with their tuppence as well. I can't for the life of me figure out why they want anything to do with the club. And they'll all say, what me? What's this about? But you know what I'm talking about.

Conclusion. Drogba, Toure - second tier. Yes okay, that's world class by today's standards so I concede that. I hope it make the "die hards" on here happy. Let's just move on to Pelegrini. Best manager ever?

[GP]

Let's just move on to Pelegrini. Best manager ever?

I though so yesterday but he wasn't in the paper today so I don't know what to think.

[Power n Glory]

Listen to it. "Yaya" - our mate. Look at this place, half the posts glorifying our fucking mortal enemies, the other half slagging our own club. If one of our players spouted the shite Toure did he'd be crucified. The twat has a moan that racists have stopped the world from proclaiming him God's gift, but never mind "Yaya", plenty of Arsenal fans ready to leap to the defence. But that's an irritable aside because it eventually gets sickening listening to the shite that goes on here.

Henry and Bergkamp being questioned? That says it all. Obviously no need to comment on that. The other three? No, I don't place them at the top level if we are talking sensibly. Good players for sure. However, if we are using the "Yaya" and Drogba standard, yes, Cesc, RvP and Ozil are absolute world class. Better than Wilson and Bent, even better than Hart. Peter Schmeichel? Not so sure - he hasn't really been in the papers of late has he? So NOT world class.

Look, unlike that cunt apologist bloke, I know you are trying to be fairly reasonable. Fair enough. I guess I've had enough of the direct and implied slagging that goes on here related to our club. I hate the way it aligns with the media bullshit as if that is somehow normal and valid. Always the same twats jumping in with their tuppence as well. I can't for the life of me figure out why they want anything to do with the club. And they'll all say, what me? What's this about? But you know what I'm talking about.

Conclusion. Drogba, Toure - second tier. Yes okay, that's world class by today's standards so I concede that. I hope it make the "die hards" on here happy. Let's just move on to Pelegrini. Best manager ever?

This debate doesn't really have much to do with being an Arsenal supporter. You're just displaying a level of bias and ignorance that makes you look silly.

[Niall_Quinn]

This debate doesn't really have much to do with being an Arsenal supporter. You're just displaying a level of bias and ignorance that makes you look silly.

No, not on the surface. But it just adds to the pile. Started out as a thread about one of our potential signings. Ends up as a chav and gypo love-in. True enough, nothing to do with being an Arsenal supporter - like the rest of it.

[selassie]

Goonersmess.

[Power n Glory]

No, not on the surface. But it just adds to the pile. Started out as a thread about one of our potential signings. Ends up as a chav and gypo love-in. True enough, nothing to do with being an Arsenal supporter - like the rest of it.

No. It's stems from the comment about World Class African players but somehow you've twisted it and you're seeing something else like you always do. Would it help if I brought Kanu into the equation? The two most recent World Class African players so happen to play for our rival clubs. If we want to get technical, Vieira is from Senegal but he played for France and he's a World Class talent. Or can't I use him as an example because he's over at City. Or would you even consider him World Class if we're going to talk about Zidane. Mardonna and Messi? Again, there is elite and hands down top of the pile when talking about a pool of talent and then there are those that are considered in the top 10-20 of best players amongst their peers. World Class.

Henry and Bergkamp were great World Class players but it's debatable whether they were at that Mardonna, Pele, Ronaldo (real), Ronaldinho, Zidane level when neither won Champs League, back to back titles or Balon D'or/ Fifa World Player awards when with Arsenal. That's another debate and I've had it plenty of times on here. Henry was snubbed for the awards and Bergkamp is a legend in my eyes that should be up there with the very best. It's another debate but you should see what I'm getting at when talking about World Class and that next level. RVP, Cesc, Ozil...even Drogba and Yaya aren't close to that top top status but they are definitely world class.

I get your argument about the term being used too loosely but it's not in regards to Drogba and Yaya Toure because they've both won domestic cups and titles, won the Champions League and pushed Ivory Coast up the list as a dangerous opponent at International level when nobody would bat an eyelid 20 years ago if drawn against them. I don't know what else you want, mate.

[Niall_Quinn]

No. It's stems from the comment about World Class African players but somehow you've twisted it and you're seeing something else like you always do. Would it help if I brought Kanu into the equation? The two most recent World Class African players so happen to play for our rival clubs. If we want to get technical, Vieira is from Senegal but he played for France and he's a World Class talent. Or can't I use him as an example because he's over at City. Or would you even consider him World Class if we're going to talk about Zidane. Mardonna and Messi? Again, there is elite and hands down top of the pile when talking about a pool of talent and then there are those that are considered in the top 10-20 of best players amongst their peers. World Class.

Henry and Bergkamp were great World Class players but it's debatable whether they were at that Mardonna, Pele, Ronaldo (real), Ronaldinho, Zidane level when neither won Champs League, back to back titles or Balon D'or/ Fifa World Player awards when with Arsenal. That's another debate and I've had it plenty of times on here. Henry was snubbed for the awards and Bergkamp is a legend in my eyes that should be up there with the very best. It's another debate but you should see what I'm getting at when talking about World Class and that next level. RVP, Cesc, Ozil...even Drogba and Yaya aren't close to that top top status but they are definitely world class.

I get your argument about the term being used too loosely but it's not in regards to Drogba and Yaya Toure because they've both won domestic cups and titles, won the Champions League and pushed Ivory Coast up the list as a dangerous opponent at International level when nobody would bat an eyelid 20 years ago if drawn against them. I don't know what else you want, mate.

Well considering I mentioned Vieria as a comparison then I think it's safe to mention him, despite the fact he works in gypo land. Bang goes the theory.