Random Arsenal Shit (When it's not worth starting a thread)

[KSE Comedy Club]

Not directly. But if the trend is followed, Dixon will be receiving his ban from Wenger any time now.

The fact is, the Wenger fraud has been so thoroughly exposed because of the time this dickhead hung on. He could have left and got away with it. Now people know, even though many still want to defend him even as their club sinks beneath the waves because of him. Self hating fans I suppose.

Don’t worry, they’ll get it eventually.

Look at what happened with Jimmy Saville

[Niall_Quinn]

If you read that again, I never said you had a problem with what Lee Dixon said. I said TEG had a problem with what Lee Dixon said. You don't have to repeat your stance.

Also, the point I was making about 'revisionism' is that it doesn't have to stem from disillusionment. People changing their opinion on him in light of recent information isn't something I'd class as rewriting history. Some of it's a bit extreme. He's not a complete fraud. But at one point we all thought Wenger could turn water into wine and it was mostly him and he'd be able to duplicate the same success with anyone.

I've revised my stance on him based on the shitty way he's treated the fans over the last few seasons. And then that led to me looking at how shitty he's treated the fans since the stadium farce, always coming down on the side of the scalpers and defending them to the hilt. And then, he doesn't even spend the money he's raked in. But that share price goes up and up and Stan's investment balloons. Stan gets what he wants, loot, Wenger gets what he wants, power. A nice little arrangement run contrary to the interests of the club as a sporting entity and pissing a constant stream of lies into the faces of the fans. And then that led me to dig into everything and review it again, all those things that were taken for granted because success is, after all, success. It was all set against the bizarre contrast between his supposed genius and his abject incompetence. I mean, how can there be a divergence that severe? Which is why I wondered about his mental state, it's the only possible explanation. Apart form one other - the explanation people are now calling revisionism. If it's the truth then that's all that matters. We'll know more once he's gone. There will be the initial stream of tributes and after that has died down we'll hear more. I think what some of the Wenger crowd are doing now is trying to shut down that possibility. They have accepted he has to go but they want to ensure the story surrounding the departure and the legacy thereafter is carefully stage managed and preserved. I don't know why that's so important to them. Does anyone try to rewrite the book on Bergkamp or Henry? Not that I've noticed. No need to. They delivered.

[HCZ]

If you read that again, I never said you had a problem with what Lee Dixon said. I said TEG had a problem with what Lee Dixon said. You don't have to repeat your stance.

Also, the point I was making about 'revisionism' is that it doesn't have to stem from disillusionment. People changing their opinion on him in light of recent information isn't something I'd class as rewriting history. Some of it's a bit extreme. He's not a complete fraud. But at one point we all thought Wenger could turn water into wine and it was mostly him and he'd be able to duplicate the same success with anyone.

Did we?

Even during the unbeaten season I knew Wenger wasn’t the best tactical manager, and if I didn’t know we had the commentators even back then talk about our lack of a plan B.

We knew that in the summer transfer Windows Wenger had the tendency not to try and build upon the success.

Was it treasonable for me to talk about the things that frustrated me about him when 606 was in operation?. No because I did. Would I have been ridiculed for saying he should go? Yes but I didn’t start thinking he should go consistently until 2011

People loved Wenger for the titles and the style of football, they loved that he did it with little spend whilst Ferguson was shelling out millions. But there was always the feeling that he lacked Ferguson’s guile.

[Power n Glory]

I've revised my stance on him based on the shitty way he's treated the fans over the last few seasons. And then that led to me looking at how shitty he's treated the fans since the stadium farce, always coming down on the side of the scalpers and defending them to the hilt. And then, he doesn't even spend the money he's raked in. But that share price goes up and up and Stan's investment balloons. Stan gets what he wants, loot, Wenger gets what he wants, power. A nice little arrangement run contrary to the interests of the club as a sporting entity and pissing a constant stream of lies into the faces of the fans. And then that led me to dig into everything and review it again, all those things that were taken for granted because success is, after all, success. It was all set against the bizarre contrast between his supposed genius and his abject incompetence. I mean, how can there be a divergence that severe? Which is why I wondered about his mental state, it's the only possible explanation. Apart form one other - the explanation people are now calling revisionism. If it's the truth then that's all that matters. We'll know more once he's gone. There will be the initial stream of tributes and after that has died down we'll hear more. I think what some of the Wenger crowd are doing now is trying to shut down that possibility. They have accepted he has to go but they want to ensure the story surrounding the departure and the legacy thereafter is carefully stage managed and preserved. I don't know why that's so important to them. Does anyone try to rewrite the book on Bergkamp or Henry? Not that I've noticed. No need to. They delivered.

The same. The more I thought about the self sustaining model Wenger kept promoting whilst watching his actions in the transfer market, the more it pissed me off. Listening to him back the season ticket price hikes and telling the fans that it was necessary to help us compete on the transfer market was the last straw. That money was paid out to Kroenke as a consultancy fee.

Too many examples of him choosing self preservation over what is best for the club and fans.

[Letters]

It was all set against the bizarre contrast between his supposed genius and his abject incompetence. I mean, how can there be a divergence that severe?

There hasn't been one.

If he was as brilliant as we once thought then that side back in the day would have retained the title, won a CL. A club side that good really should have. His weaknesses were always there, looking back, just harder to notice when the trophies keep coming and the level of football is so good.
But if he's as incompetent as some now suppose then we wouldn't have been anywhere near the top 4 for the last decade and we certainly wouldn't have won 3 FA Cups in 4 years.
Even Dixon in his "scathing attack" said:

"It would be wrong to say Arsene doesn't know what he's doing, but he's floundering now as everyone has caught up.

Which is pretty much how I see it. He was ahead of his time but that time was 20 years ago. People have caught up and overtaken us.
The problem isn't that he has radically changed, but that he hasn't while football has around him.

[HCZ]

The same. The more I thought about the self sustaining model Wenger kept promoting whilst watching his actions in the transfer market, the more it pissed me off. Listening to him back the season ticket price hikes and telling the fans that it was necessary to help us compete on the transfer market was the last straw. That money was paid out to Kroenke as a consultancy fee.

Too many examples of him choosing self preservation over what is best for the club and fans.

That’s more an argument as to whether he’s a selfish prick who puts himself before the club

There’s no argument to be had there, he definitely is

[Niall_Quinn]

There hasn't been one.

If he was as brilliant as we once thought then that side back in the day would have retained the title, won a CL. A club side that good really should have. His weaknesses were always there, looking back, just harder to notice when the trophies keep coming and the level of football is so good.
But if he's as incompetent as some now suppose then we wouldn't have been anywhere near the top 4 for the last decade and we certainly wouldn't have won 3 FA Cups in 4 years.
Even Dixon in his "scathing attack" said:

"It would be wrong to say Arsene doesn't know what he's doing, but he's floundering now as everyone has caught up.

Which is pretty much how I see it. He was ahead of his time but that time was 20 years ago. People have caught up and overtaken us.
The problem isn't that he has radically changed, but that he hasn't while football has around him.

You asked almost the exact thing earlier in the day and then ignored the answers. Now you are asking it again. I hate it when you do that.

Dixon's right, Wenger does know what he's doing. He's floundering. Got outfoxed by that Swedish landlord and his pub team, didn't he? He gets outfoxed by anyone who can bear watching us for more than 2 minutes.

[Letters]

I see Wenger as a Ray Harryhausen in a world of CGI.
But that doesn't mean that he wasn't brilliant in his day.
Neither does it mean that he alone was the reason for our success. No football manager is.

[Özim]

So you’ve basically inferred...I see

Never mind that I’ve said several times that Lee Dixon said nothing that was of any real surprise to me. Wenger is not a coach, Adams said it and Dixon said it....we know that coaching defending doesn’t even really happen much at Arsenal

The point I am referring to is the inference that Wenger lucked out somehow and all this came about for him and he was the witness beneficiary.

That’s the kind of revisionism i am referring to, that somehow he’s always been shit and what’s happening is him being exposed as some kind of Charlatan.

My point is like any manager you don’t achieve things by yourself but more as the figurehead of the combined and collective efforts of yourself and others.

And where Wenger has gone wrong is believing that it is all down to him.

No manager achieves everything himself obviously however, many of the ingredients Wenger has required for those success are things which a top manager should be able to provide, tactics, motivation, adequate training to name just a few, you make it sound like Wengers weaknesses are your standard weaknesses any manager has.

The point is the evidence shows that Wenger is not a great manager because when push came to shove and he got rid of all the leaders and experienced players too quickly the successes dried up. A decent manager would have identified that and done something about it, well over a decade has passed and he still hasn't twigged. That's ignoring the fact he doesn't have a clue about defending and refuses to sign players anyone with half a brain would have signed by now, all things that make him an average manager.

[Özim]

Did we?

Even during the unbeaten season I knew Wenger wasn’t the best tactical manager, and if I didn’t know we had the commentators even back then talk about our lack of a plan B.

We knew that in the summer transfer Windows Wenger had the tendency not to try and build upon the success.

Was it treasonable for me to talk about the things that frustrated me about him when 606 was in operation?. No because I did. Would I have been ridiculed for saying he should go? Yes but I didn’t start thinking he should go consistently until 2011

People loved Wenger for the titles and the style of football, they loved that he did it with little spend whilst Ferguson was shelling out millions. But there was always the feeling that he lacked Ferguson’s guile.

People definitely thought he was some sort of messiah a magician doing something noone else could possibly do yes.

Oh only Wenger could achieve what he has with so little money, it's not his fault the board are throwing him under the bus they won't give him money, he's been unlucky with injuries, players have betrayed him after he made them what they are, in Wenger we trust, who can replace Wenger, we can't spend money like the other clubs they're cheating their way to trophies etc, it's the owners fault not Wengers, look at what Wenger did 10 years ago, where would Arsenal be without Wenger etc etc all kinds excuses we've heard for his incompetence.

I remember all the excuses for his failings, oh he has no money, people looking for any kind of excuse for his failings, he's not really challenged for one of the big trophies for years and yet he's still here, up until a year and a half ago barely anyone dared say a bad word about him, even last season when people tried they as good as got lynched.

He's got some some of cult following where people thought he could do no wrong and nothing was his fault, even today you still get people saying he deserves this he deserves that, yet his last major success was 14 years ago, he's failed time and time again in the CL, spent most of his career with us unsuccessful and is totally ruining the club.

You make it sound like we all knew he wasn't a great manager, I don't that's the case at all, up until recent years most of the fans thought he was some sort of miracle worker, even when we were getting hammered by our supposed rivals, they hailed 4th place as some sort of mega achievement (much like Wenger), the reality is he's been doing a poor job for a long time and he is limited as a manager.

His achievements were fantastic in the early day no doubt about that, but in the lat 14 years they've been average and any manager at any other top club would have lost their job probably about 10 years ago had they done what he ha.