Random Arsenal Shit (When it's not worth starting a thread)

[Niall_Quinn]

This is true.

There were many a time when Zim was destroyed for having the cheek to mention anything against Wenger.

People would have defended Wenger to the hilt on anything

Yep. And when you attract that level of devotion then expect the inverse if you abuse the privilege. But even then, Wenger's had a fuck easy ride when you think about it.

[HCZ]

This is true.

There were many a time when Zim was destroyed for having the cheek to mention anything against Wenger.

People would have defended Wenger to the hilt on anything

Zim can be thoughtful and analytical but he also has a habit of polemics

Calling Wenger pound for pound the worst manager we have had in our history

In fairness I think it’s said as much out of frustration

[Niall_Quinn]

Zim can be thoughtful and analytical but he also has a habit of polemics

Calling Wenger pound for pound the worst manager we have had in our history

In fairness I think it’s said as much out of frustration

2 more seasons under Wenger and that would very likely turn out to be true. We've never been relegated from the top flight, have we? And we always compliment Wenger on finding new lows.

[Cripps]

Why do you lot still bother?

[Power n Glory]

Fine, I can’t speak of that I used this site once in a blue moon before it moved onto this server in 2011

But I used 606 religiously and questioning Wengers job would have had me laughed out of the place, but criticising him for our defending in seasons like 02/03? Join the queue

Apart from my dealing with the cultists on Twitter, Wenger has never been beyond reproach.

Tony Adams would never have been called a sad drunk by fans in 2004. The reason he is now is because the pro Wenger idiots have become more militant.

I'm not saying or have I ever said he wouldn't get criticised for our defending. You're shifting the argument somewhere else. This is about player development. Are you seriously telling me that Wenger's player development credentials weren't held up to the highest of standards? That his eye for talent wasn't considered to be above all his peers?

Lee Dixon brings up one example with defenders but if you look at his record for developing young attackers, there is no way people would have thought Wenger would fail to develop players like Ramsey, Wilshere, Ox and Walcott. Or players like Iwobi, Denilson and Vela.

[IBK]

Wenger had taken over a club where which had enjoyed recent success but at the same time wasn’t in danger of challenging for top honours in the near future, we had under Rioch qualified for the UEFA cup on the last day of the season with the Bergkamp brace against Bolton and that was considered a big deal (I was still a kid but I do remember that game)

People that want to nullify anyone else’s impact are as guilty of rewriting history as those who consider Wenger a peripheral figure. We know that Marc Overmars and Manu Petit were bought practically by Danny Fiszman.

Of course we know that the success was a fusion of the experience and leadership of the old guard combined with Wenger bringing into the club players that people hadn’t even heard of or were not reaching their potential at the club we bought them from.

We know that the Wenger and Dein partnership was almost as pivotal to the club’s success as the partnership between Clough and Peter Taylor at Derby and Forest. We know that Pat Rice was kept on as asssistant manager because he was more likely to be a bawler than Wenger (you used to hear Rice shouting not aggressively but assertively at players in pre match warm ups when I used to go to Highbury)

But what happened slowly was that Dein left, Edelman left and Fiszman died and Wenger was allowed to build an unquestionable power base for himself in that vacuum. Because Wenger was only consulting with himself coaches were going more and more unheeded and there was no one with the authority to persuade him or make him listen.

That’s why Wenger became almost unsackable, who was going to do it? For all the power Ferguson had at United he still had to answer to those at the top, Wenger has had to answer to no one. And whilst the club was getting its beloved top four finishes no sense in questioning that (and sadly had we not fallen outside the top four last season this would still be the case)

Wenger is just a case of someone corrupted by his own sense of hype his arrogance in interviews Make it clear he is someone not used to being scrutinised or questioned and it rankles him and he calls it disrespectful. But I think it’s partly human nature, it’s easy to live in a bubble when people around you tell you how wonderful you are. Your ego becomes so inflated that anyone who bursts your bubble is a complete cunt.

Thatcher had arguably lost it years before she was finally shoved out, and in the months before her own MPs nobbled her she would come out with how she was going to fight the next general election and go on and on and on. Power makes you deaf to reason.

[Letters]

This is true.

There were many a time when Zim was destroyed for having the cheek to mention anything against Wenger.

People would have defended Wenger to the hilt on anything

To be fair, Zim always takes things to the extreme. I think around 2005 or 2006 he was calling for Wenger to be sacked and was laughed out of the room.
People are now saying "Zim woz right" but the fact is we don't know what would have happened had Wenger been sacked then.

I don't think it's true to say that anything said against Wenger was ridiculed. I don't think anyone ever thought he was a master tactician.
I don't think anyone ever thought he was a brilliant defensive coach.
But sacking him 2 years after the Invincibles, I think most people would have thought that an over-reaction and premature.
It reminds me of the people whining about Ferguson when he failed to win a trophies for a few years in a row and calling for his head..

OK, it went a different way with Ferguson, but the point is it's always easy to look back with 20:20 hindsight and declare those who said a certain thing as wise seers.
The fact is if you keep a consistent opinion about something in an area like football where fortunes can fluctuate you'll probably end up being "right" eventually.

Interestingly, now it really has gone the opposite of the way you say it was (which, as discussed, I'm not sure it ever was quite like that).
You genuinely cannot say the slightest positive thing about Wenger on here without being chased down the road with pichforks and people (deliberately) misunderstanding you and claiming you support Wenger to the hilt.
All rather tiresome.

[Letters]

Why do you lot still bother?

It's this or working

[Globalgunner]

Why do you lot even bother with replying Letters. 2 seasons ago if you told him we`d drop out of the top 4 he would cry "behave". Now he conveniently forgets that what was predicted is now our existing and foreseeable reality.
I predict he will have us close to relegation next season,. Its inevitable because we are on current form one of the worst teams in the league. Next season there is not a player in the world who could save us (a la Sanchez) who would want to come here. He wont train the players any differently or organise them any differently. What is the inevitable result when every team around us is improving. We cant even get a draw against Brighton now.! We have 9 games to go til the end of this season. Can anyone honestly see us winning even 3. Forget the Europa. That is a pipe dream.

Arguing with Letters over Wenger is like trying to convince your Nan that the 2010s are better than the 1970s. Not a chance in the world. As for Herbert. only a psychiatrist knows what his problem is. He agrees that Wenger is not a good manager, but wasnt always so........ Who really gives a fk.

[Letters]

Why do you lot even bother with replying Letters. 2 seasons ago if you told him we`d drop out of the top 4 he would cry "behave".

No. This is exactly the sort of lie I'm talking about. I would say "Behave" when people started spouting this sort of rot:

I predict he will have us close to relegation next season

Behave...

Its inevitable because we are on current form one of the worst teams in the league.

No, it isn't. Because the final league table is not based on a small snapshot of the season when we have, admittedly, been wretched.