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Thread: Random Arsenal Shit (When it's not worth starting a thread)

  1. #10761
    Member Power n Glory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I am invisible View Post
    Probably a little bit of all three, I suspect.

    I spent half of yesterday evening listening to German football experts and former players on the radio, and the opinion seemed to be fairly unanimous that he has been scapegoated and singled out for harsher criticism than the other players (pretty much going back to before the 2014 WC), and that the DFB have made a right pig's ear of a situation that they could have easily squashed weeks ago.

    From what I've read from his statement, his main gripe seems to be 1) with this guy Reinhard Grindel, who actually voted against dual-nationalities in German parliament, and is on record as saying that Islamic culture has become too ingrained in German cities (so all in all a pretty piss-poor choice for President of the DFB), and 2) the fact that he is constantly referred to as German-Turkish in the press instead of just German (or, better yet, as Mesut Özil, as his nationality really shouldn't need to be referenced at all when writing about him in the context of his national team). I think that second point is one of those drip-drip things that sounds like it should be a minor irritation at best, but that gradually has an effect without anyone really noticing that it's happening? Every time he's referred to as German-Turkish it's essentially a little reminder that he's thought of as German, but not really German, and then when the poor performances and bad results inevitably happen, it probably seems like the rest of the German players have been distanced from him and all of the undesirable labels that he's been tagged with over the years (lazy, uncommitted, etc) - labels that are traditionally regarded as distinctly unGerman.

    That's how I imagine it will feel to Özil anyway. Chuck in the abuse and the threats that he and his family have been receiving on social media, the way Grindel has fanned the flames of a situation that he should have been trying to contain, and the childish, contemptuous comments of someone extremely influential like Uli Hoeness, and you can at least understand why he maybe feels justified and validated in making these claims of scapegoating and discrimination.

    Having said all of that, Özil also comes across as unnecessarily defensive and completely unwilling to admit fault when it comes to 'the photo', and I really don't understand that at all? Nor do I understand why he let it drag on for so long without a response? If he'd just worded an immediate apology and mumbled something about poor judgement, then it may not have satisfied everyone, but I'm also sure it would have been quickly forgotten and written off as just another example of a footballer doing something stupid (in a long history of footballers doing bloody stupid things). Instead, he's tried to defend the indefensible, and in doing so he's given weight to the counter argument that he can't handle criticism, and that he's just playing the race / discrimination card to deflect attention away from poor performances.

    For me, 'the photo', Özil's performances on the pitch, and his claims of scapegoating and discrimination are 3 distinct issues, each worthy of their own debate, but unfortunately neither side seem able (or willing) to separate them when making their arguments. For what it's worth, I think he's been unbelievably stupid with the photo, that his performances have been 'meh' for some time, and that (on some level) he is probably hoping that his claims of discrimination will deflect attention from the issue of his form. However, I also think that there probably is some merit to his claims of discrimination and scapegoating too, even if he is also using it to deflect - I don't think the two counter-accusations have to be mutually exclusive.
    They are distinct issues which is probably why I can't draw a clear cut conclusion. The DFB should never have let this issue get to this point and distract the players. It was self sabotage. Ozil could have issued a statement much earlier as well to cut the BS. He knows the game. It was just a picture and I get his argument about respecting office but I can imagine he's been on the defensive about the photo from day one and it's rubbed people the wrong way. It's bled into a larger argument about integration and racism. You can't really run from this sort of debate but actions from both parties have made things worse for people that actually have to deal with this problem on a everyday basis in Germany. But it's on the German FA to fix this problem.

    How will Ozil feel looking back on his time representing Germany? What a way to end it.

  2. #10762
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    Quote Originally Posted by Power n Glory View Post
    I don't know what you're reading either if you think I said Arsenal have been shit because of Ozil. GW
    Why dont you post a quote or 2 of mine spanning 3 years where ive said what you said. that Ozil is not the worst player on the pitch. You had a notion in your head and affixed my name to it. Own it, dont run away or try to deflect from it. Smilies are not an argument buttress either. Its juvenile.
    Last edited by Globalgunner; 24-07-2018 at 01:13 PM.
    Make 2mrw better than 2day

  3. #10763
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    Quote Originally Posted by Globalgunner View Post
    Why dont you post a quote or 2 of mine spanning 3 years where ive said what you said. that Ozil is not the worst player on the pitch. You had a notion in your head and affixed my name to it. Own it, dont run away or try to deflect from it. Smilies are not an argument buttress either. Its juvenile.
    I don't have to go back 3 years. You’ve been saying the same thing about Wenger for years but that doesn’t mean players aren’t accountable for performances. Especially the ones that have experience with massive clubs.

    The reason Arsenal have been crap since Ozil has been here is the same reason weve been crap before Ozil came here. That reason has since left the club.
    The argument from most was always that he’s a different player for Germany and before joining us. We’ll soon find out how he plays under Unai and we’ve seen that even with Germany and playing his favoured number 10 role, he was unable to make an impact. That’s not saying all the other players were much better.

  4. #10764
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  5. #10765
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    Mentioned this earier think it might have been missed, here it is again:

    Quote Originally Posted by Özim View Post
    Terrible news, Usmanov allegedly wanting to sell his share in the club, potentially that could mean Kroenke owning the whole club. What's clear is Kroenke won't invest, looking at our budget we've had about 60 odd million for Emery, some might say it's because he's a new manager (not sure I totally agree), Everton have spent 50 million on one player.

    So we have a billionaire owner who basically sits there and makes money, all the others seem to invest even the guy at Everton (Usmanov could end up their and make them competitors for us).

    https://news.sky.com/story/russian-b...-says-11446839

  6. #10766
    Member I am invisible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Power n Glory View Post
    They are distinct issues which is probably why I can't draw a clear cut conclusion. The DFB should never have let this issue get to this point and distract the players. It was self sabotage. Ozil could have issued a statement much earlier as well to cut the BS. He knows the game. It was just a picture and I get his argument about respecting office but I can imagine he's been on the defensive about the photo from day one and it's rubbed people the wrong way. It's bled into a larger argument about integration and racism. You can't really run from this sort of debate but actions from both parties have made things worse for people that actually have to deal with this problem on a everyday basis in Germany. But it's on the German FA to fix this problem.

    How will Ozil feel looking back on his time representing Germany? What a way to end it.
    I don’t buy the “respecting office” line - I reckon the truth has more to do with him a) not having the bottle to say no a man like Erdogan (especially if he still has family back and in Turkey, or harbours any hopes of living there one day), and then b) digging his heels in over offering an explanation purely because his mortal enemy, Grindel, kept demanding one, as he went about making the whole situation about as bad as it could be. And now it’s snowballed out of all control and neither side will back down over their obstinate stance...

  7. #10767
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    Quote Originally Posted by I am invisible View Post
    I don’t buy the “respecting office” line - I reckon the truth has more to do with him a) not having the bottle to say no a man like Erdogan (especially if he still has family back and in Turkey, or harbours any hopes of living there one day), and then b) digging his heels in over offering an explanation purely because his mortal enemy, Grindel, kept demanding one, as he went about making the whole situation about as bad as it could be. And now it’s snowballed out of all control and neither side will back down over their obstinate stance...
    That's a point.

    Agree on Ozil making it worse. But should he stay silent when so many have had so much to say about him? I think he could have worded things differently. It's already a political issue and has probably gotten worse. Confirmation bias on both sides with the statement. The German FA have really done a shit job though. They've helped to promote divide and they really should know better. We'll see what their squad selection looks like for the next internationals.

    I remember France going through something similar with the African French players. The Dutch had a similar issue with the players from Suriname. Personally, I wouldn't represent my adopted country unless I felt I was 100% embraced and part of the culture. But it need not go that deep. This could have be sorted quickly if Ozil just apologiesd for the photo.

  8. #10768
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    Quote Originally Posted by Power n Glory View Post
    Personally, I wouldn't represent my adopted country unless I felt I was 100% embraced and part of the culture.
    The point is that Ozil was born in Germany; it is not his adopted country.

    I agree that Ozil could have used different language in his response. However, I suspect that he deliberately used English because he wanted to actually "speak" to the Arsenal fans. Also, I believe that he has left the door slightly open if the DFB apologise and if the DFB president resigns.
    While all answers are responses, not all responses are answers.

  9. #10769
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    He definitely left the door open for if they apologise. They won't though.

  10. #10770
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toronto Gooner View Post
    The point is that Ozil was born in Germany; it is not his adopted country.

    I agree that Ozil could have used different language in his response. However, I suspect that he deliberately used English because he wanted to actually "speak" to the Arsenal fans. Also, I believe that he has left the door slightly open if the DFB apologise and if the DFB president resigns.
    Even though he was born in Germany, he said in his statement that he has two hearts. One German. One Turkish. If he himself identifies as part Turkish despite being born in Germany, surely he sees why some don't class him as a full German. He must know he could have handled that picture issue better by releasing a statement, like Gundogan and taken the sting out of the picture a little.

    Also, it's not as if he just posed with a Turkish flag. The Turkish President, Erdoğan, is a controversial figure and considered by some to be a dictator and against Western values because of his actions in Syria, locking up political opponents and whatever else. That's the part that's getting lost in this debate. He's not even popular in Turkey.

    Imagine if the England team had a player in that was part American, pro American and proud of his heritage. No problem with that at all. But imagine if he posed in a picture with Trump. There would be a shit storm whipped up by the press. If said player were to remain silent and then release a statement similar to what Ozil released, it would just raise further questions and controversy. Or imagine if we had a Muslim player in the team that took a picture with cleric or leader with extreme views. If the player can't see how this could cause a problem and identifies as British... Shit. We've seen fans lose their shit over a player posing in a rival teams shirt.

    Ozil has a good PR team and they often handle his image with care. The the more I think about it, the more I think they dropped the ball and whipped up a shitstorm. Still no excuse for racism though. The German FA should handled this with more care before it started to get ugly and go beyond football.

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