To me Emery was one of the elite managers available. If someone like Klopp is considered an elite manager, then Emery has a much better record than him and should be given time to put his stamp on the side.Originally Posted by Özim
To me Emery was one of the elite managers available. If someone like Klopp is considered an elite manager, then Emery has a much better record than him and should be given time to put his stamp on the side.
Arsene Wenger, the only football manager that got paid 8 million quid to do nothing but sit on his arse..
Edu not interested in coming to Arsenal apparently.
So we pissed off Sven and can’t even get our man to replace him.
This club.
Not too sure, Klopp seems to have done more than Emery, he's won the league in Germany (no mean feat with Bayern) and they did well in the CL with him, including getting to the CL final, he also brought through a lot of quality players.
With all due respect to Emery the Europa league is not the same level as the CL and winning the league in France isn't really that hard when you're club have so much more money than anyone else. In the end he got the sack as well which suggests the club weren't happy with him. In addition Klopps' stock was high when he left Dortmund, Emerys' didn't seem to be after PSG, despite what he won he was kind seen to have failed, the embarrassing defeat to Barca really didn't help though, neither did coming 2nd behind us in the CL group, that was a pretty poor show given how average we were.
It's hard to gauge how good Emery is to be honest, what I remember from Klopps' Dortmund is much like what he's done at Liverpool, high energy, great footballing side where everyone know what they need to do, with Emery I'm not toos sure what his style is, it hasn't so far become too apparent at Arsenal how he wants to play because right now it's not much different to last season.
IMO what I will say is that Emery didn't really do his homework about Arsenal, if he had he would have been able to make more changes than he did last summer (not offering Xhaka etc new contracts and maybe selling them), you didn't need to come in to see they weren't good enough.
We've got the Ramsey situation where he's now going on a free (he should have decided there and then whether he wanted him or not) and now the Ozil situation, again he should have made up his mind last summer about him.
Last edited by Özim; 17-01-2019 at 11:34 AM.
Every other big club seems to appeal to top managers and staff, except for Arsenal who seem to often get turned down, clearly something wrong at the club, if it was Man U or Chelsea Edu would have already bought a house no doubt!So we pissed off Sven and can’t even get our man to replace him.
This club.
I honestly don't like what Gazidis, Wenger and co have turned this club into, we've gone from a great club where success was massively important, to also rans only interested in money, that's a massive fail in my book.
We're a prime example of what no football club should ever become.
Last edited by Özim; 17-01-2019 at 11:29 AM.
We’re a fucking shit house, that’s what we are.
That’s a weird narrative. Most of the season we’ve worked harder and our attacking play has been better (evidenced through more goals and perhaps through conceding more) whether this drop off over Xmas is due to the team struggling to cope with the high work rate consistently remains to be seen. Liverpool went through the same in their first season under Klopp. Again, only time will tell. Not 6 months.
You are seeing Xhaka from the point of view of a fan who doesn’t like him. If you are a manager coming into a club knowing that you don’t have much to spend, and a more defensive minded midfielder is the priority, it makes little sense to dump the only other experienced option we have to play next to him. What would’ve happened when AMN when out injured in the first game? We’re not going to get much for Xhaka so then we have two newbies in the centre of our team, or a 19 year old. Or Elneny. He made a sensible choice to make the best of what he has available for his first season.
He decided he wanted Ramsey and started him higher up the field. It wasn’t down to him that the new guys came in and took the contract off the table. You could also suggest that Ramsey knew what he was doing and always itended to leave, which is why it took him so long to sign the thing, and this way it doesn’t make him look like the bad guy. Who knows on that one. If there is a cost saving exercise going on at the club (there was apparently a leaked email asking departments to save money, plus the lack of funds in this transfer window) then they took the contract away because of that. Emery seemed happy enough for Ramsey to sign up before that.
Same goes for Ozil. He came in, he backed him publicly, made him captain even - then Ozil stamps his spoilt little feet because he was dropped as he wasn’t performing or working hard enough. Which is exactly what a lot of fans have been criticising him for over the past 24 months. He’s just found out crying about it only worked under Wenger. Even the German team are glad to see the back of him after his tantrum.
Last edited by SMatthews; 17-01-2019 at 11:59 AM.
I don't think his plan has been that clear to be honest and in throughout our winning run we did ride our luck, almost never performing in the 1st half of games at all, so I wouldn't say he's been that impressive so far, that's ignoring his faith in certain players, that is a choice and a wrong one IMO he should have tried out different options as certain players just don't make the grade. Let's not forget that in his 2nd season Klopp got Liverpool to the CL final as well, also don't forget Klopp only started working at Liverpool on the 8th October, so well into the season, he also got them to two finals that season (one in Europe).
I still would have tried to sell Xhaka and brought in someone else, he couldn't have been any worse than this guy who can barely play football, I just don't think we made a good enough job clearing out the dead wood and on top of that we offered new contracts to the wrong players.
Not good enough IMO, Ramsey hadn't signed so they should have given a date to sign up or sold him, no other options on the table, to let him drag it out (as we've done time and time again) was amateurish, there's no excuse to be honest.
As for Ozil I get your point, but if he needed money for new signings that would have been a perfect way of getting it, on top of that I don't like the way he's handled it, he's our best paid and most creative player, we don't have any better options so we shouldn't be leaving him out completely, it doesn't make any sense. Emery has history as well with Neymar that he couldn't get on with, he doesn't seem to be able to handle big players which is a worry as well.
There's certainly a few things about Emery that don't sit well with me at the moment, he's too stubborn and not flexible enough, he needs to change that because it's not going to go down well with the fans, I also don't like the players we seem to be interested in, they're either too old or totally unproven.
Last edited by Özim; 17-01-2019 at 12:16 PM.
EDIT: You're missing the point of what I'm saying about Emery. Yes I've seen all those issues too. But there was a clear difference in the way we were trying to play before we hit Xmas. Most fans would agree on that. You're also missing the point on Klopp. The high energy rate took its toll on his team around the mid-way point of the season. That could be the reason we are going through the same. I don't know. It's just a guess but it's better than just saying "he's just like Wenger again" or just "do better". There has to be a reason for it as there has been a noticeable change recently (oh and Klopp got to the CL final in his third year). There is also a case to be made for Klopp that he could be one of those managers who is "always the bride" as he's lost a lot of finals so far. Winning the league will go a long way to changing that perception.
His plan is identifiable but it’s become less so during December. Whether that’s to do with the energy levels dropping due to the demand of his style, we’ll have to see. Having full backs with good energy that can get up as down is pivotal to the way he wants to play. We’ve mostly not had that due to Monreal’s injury and were certainly better before Bellerin went out. I will not be surprised if he buys there in the summer.
See, this is what I mean. “Can barely play football” is a nonsense statement. Its easy to say I would’ve got rid and done x and x but you have to take into consideration the other factors I mentioned. This isn’t a video game and changes don’t happen ovenight. The contracts are also out of his hands. His job is the team now, the Wenger days are over in that regard.
People use the Neymar thing as an example but there were more than one big name in that team. Neymar is the king of that club and any manager would lose that battle. So pointing out a single example as proof isn’t anywhere near enough - especially when it’s soemone with the power that Neymar has at that club. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that after all these years PSG have not managed to secure an ‘elite’ manager yet.
The situation with Ozil is probably more complicated than Emery just dropping him for the sake of it. But if you want to boil it down just to Emery v Ozil, then Emery seems to be winniing that one pretty easily.
This is the thing that kills me about the Ozil situation - for two years fans have grown more and more frustrated with him and when a manager finally puts his lazy arse in place, Ozil suddenly becomes this mercurial genius that is going to turn our season around. He certainly didn’t last season. At the start of this season he didn’t either. And yet we have similar amount of points, goals when he’s not around. Tells me is quite replaceable. And given his flakey nature I would definitely question his injuries - did we believe all his absences last season? Then there’s no need to think it’s any different now. He’s used to being pampered and he’s found out that neither the national team or his club side value him highly enough anymore. If Germany - who are going through a real dip - can’t live without him, why can’t we?
When you say ‘them’ about the Ramsey contact, you mean Gazidis and co right? Emery would’ve probably said “yes I’d like to keep him” but contract deadlines etc is out of his hands. So yes, not good enough by the upper management for sure.
And can we not judge him on transfer rumours and just the players he actually buys? Stop finding reasons to turn agaisnt him, because that certainly is nowhere near a ‘free pass’. Emery needs to do what he thinks his best and if it works in the long run then fans will change their tune. Most fans are too short sighted in that regard. I’ve no idea if Emery is the man for us or not long term, but I’m willing to give him the FULL benefit of the doubt until he’s had the chance to prove himself.
Last edited by SMatthews; 17-01-2019 at 01:01 PM.
I see what you're saying and I'd be fine with that if not for a few things which are starting to bug me, the inflexibility he's showing with certain players getting picked regardless, when a player isn't performing well you don't keep playing him over and over and over again, you try to change things (he seems a bit slow at seeing issues IMO), I feel certain players (just like with Wenger) seem to get picked regardless, for most of the season we've also seen that in almost every game in the 1st half we haven't got started, I find it odd that a manager doesn't address that, yes I agree it can happen sometimes, but it was almost every game and we got very lucky as most of our opponents missed simple chances to lead. These little things bug me a bit I'll be honest. As for Klopp yes he does lose finals, but he's also won a trophies, most notable the league in the past, but I see your point, what I will say is his teams play great football, I don't think we're plying particularly great football at the moment.
Monreal is 33, he won't be able to get up and down, on top of that our full backs can't cross for toffee unfortunately, so we'd need to address that, but I also think that given our defensive problems he should be looking to adapt a bit and focus on defending first with the defenders.
Well look at what he does on the pitch, he can't tackle, is slow, doesn't read the game well, his passing is OK (and that's his best attribute) and his shooting isn't all that either, IMO in professional terms he's not very good, I don't even think he's a good enough squad player. Where there's a will there's a way, what's clear is Emery didn't want a clearout, as for the contracts I appreciate he doesn't handle them, but he decides whether he wants to keep a player or not and with Ramsey he clearly changed his mind (they wouldn't have just taken the contract away without him being consulted at least), moreover they knew he had a year left, so the logic would be to get him to sign or sell him, Emery knew this as well and in my opinion knowing this should hae suggested they sold him.
Well it's happening with Ozil again, falling put with a big player, if anything you'd be trying to keep your best players happy. With regards Ozil, he's not really winning, we've had to play players who aren't much good and have been losing games because Emery seems to have fallen out with Ozil, that's cutting off your nose to spite your face IMO, by all means sell him in the summer, but in the meantime make use of him (he is on 350k a week) even from the bench, he can create goals as he's our most creative player, moreover if he does perform well his value will go up and we'll be able to sell him, not picking him will make it even harder to sell him for anything meaningful if at all, so it's illogical.
Whatever anyone thinks about Ozil, right now we need to use him, he's getting paid huge amounts and can create goals for us and when were in poor form and losing game we have to be more flexible, if people want him sold fine, but we can't sell him right now so let's at least use someone we're paying a fortune to.
It's not out of his hands, he had a year left on his contract, the way I see it you'd say if he doesn't sign by x date (in the summer) then we should sell him as he could leave on a free otherwise, the lack of common sense is alarming, especially given how many times this has alread happened.
I'm happy to give him a chance, but for me he needs to also earn the chance by showing us something different, gone are the days of a free ticket like Wenger had.
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