Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn
Baby I was born to run.
What is wrong with Arteta? I don’t get it! He’s done a brilliant job
It's better to burn out, than to fade away.
I know you don’t get it.What is wrong with Arteta? I don’t get it! He’s done a brilliant job
We just have very polar opposite definitions of what a brilliant job is
I don’t consider 37 defeats from 133 league games a brilliant job
I don’t consider three wins from last 9 games conceding almost two goals a game in that time a brilliant job
I don’t consider managing only 17 clean sheets from 65 home league games a brilliant job
I don’t consider freezing out one of the best left backs in the league to play a luxury signing a brilliant job
We’ve spent almost 400 million on players since he’s been here , to have qualified for the Champions league after three years is the absolute bare minimum we could ask for…and don’t give me that shit about the state of the team he inherited. The team he inherited finished 5th the previous season.
Guy is a complete and total fraud
It's better to burn out, than to fade away.
NOTE: The location of this post has been moved and the thread title (which was previously Wenger is Leaving) has been manipulated by a notorious pro-Wenger moderator. What was previously a message that contained no profanity and made a comment on a real life event has now been manipulated by a deliberately provocative title. An old and crude propaganda and censorship technique.
Well, I agree. It was definitely Top 4 or bust this year. But Arteta has delivered far more than that. You can cherry pick stats to make him look bad if you like. I could do the same. Look:
This year we've scored more goals than The Invincibles and with 3 games to go could have got the same points as they got. Even having lost the last 2, if we win on the final day we'll end up with our second highest ever PL total.
(As I've said I suspect after City beat Everton the players knew the game was up and rather gave up. I am annoyed about that, it isn't good enough, but I reckon that's what happened).
Look. The bottom line is you didn't expect a title challenge this year. Nor did I. Nor did anyone. But that's what Arteta has delivered. We were genuine contenders this year. We were the only team to really push City. And were we not up against an absolute machine in City we'd probably have been Champions this year. I think Arteta himself has noted that the same people who were saying we'd struggle to finish Top 4 are now whining that we didn't win the league. Holy logical inconsistency, Batman! Here were your pre-season predictions:
League Position:5th or 6th unless we sign a central midfielder
Mind the gap?: Spurs will finish above us
http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=5092
And now you're moaning your tits off because we didn't win the league? Have a word with yourself.
Now, that doesn't mean that Arteta doesn't deserve criticism, the collapse at the end hasn't been good enough. My gut feel is City would have won it anyway, but to not push them to the last day is pathetic.
But the progress this season has been clear. To not acknowledge that is perverse. Whether Arteta can take us any further is debatable, but he has absolutely earned the right to try.
I’m sorry you don’t like my critique of Arteta. But again it’s not that we haven’t won the league it’s that we’ve dropped 15 points from the last 8 games when challenging for the league. It’s not just disappointing, it’s unacceptable. City may well have won it anyway, but the point I keep trying to hammer home again, and again and again is that what City did or didn’t do didn’t matter it’s what we didn’t do.
There’s two arguments to be made about the collapse, one is that we didn’t rotate the squad enough throughout the season much in the same way we didn’t last season and second is that there was a mental collapse. 2-0 up and relatively comfortable in back to back games only to struggle to come away with a draw, a humbling by Southampton a team that has meekly surrendered its place in the premier league was made to look like dogged fighters in the 3-3 draw with us.
When I call Arteta a fraud maybe I’m being uncharitable because it’s not him coming out with all this trust the process horse manure, or fawning articles about what a tactical genius he is. He isn’t, there’s no evidence that he’s anything but a very average coach who has the good fortune to have been allowed to spend vast amounts of money for someone with no prior managerial experience…not only that but he seems to enjoy as much power and control as Wenger had when he was here (now I think Wenger had too much power, but he at least had earned it)
There’s also a bit of strawmanning going on, I haven’t advocated for Arteta’s sacking…the absolute dross out there means that it would be far better for the moment at least to stick rather than twist. But we should do so with an eye to looking to see if there are coaches out there who can improve us, watch what Edin Terzic does should he win the Bundesliga.
Not just him but Eddie Howe, Thomas Frank, De Zerbi etc…not saying any of them are better than Arteta but going to be an interesting season next season for many of these coaches as to whether they can prove their credentials.
Ultimately we haven’t achieved more than top four in any tangible sense. If we’d kept the title challenge going to the end of the season it could be said, but no we have met our minimum objective only.
Even that is a bit "lies, damned lies and statistics".
You're right, of course. Those are the numbers. But the first of those games was at Anfield where I think even you agree it was a fairly creditable point.
I suspect had we got to HT at 2-0 we'd have won. Fine lines. The next two games I have no defence for, we shouldn't be dropping points at West Ham having cruised into a 2-0 lead. And while I guess they deserve some credit for coming back from 3-1 down so late vs Southampton, we shouldn't be down by that score in the first place. But then the next game was at The Ethiad. I was disappointed by how easily they dispatched us but look what they did to Real Madrid. City are just at a different level from us, and everyone. I actually think our response to that bad run was pretty good. Obviously we should be beating Chelsea given their awful form this year, but we did. And it was a very good win up at Newcastle. The last two...well, as I said, I think we just gave up. I am frustrated about that, City were going to win it but make them win it. Don't just give up. Not acceptable.
Well, I think it's a bit of both. We could certainly have done more. But I can't help feel that City's relentless march was going to mow us down in the end anyway. Before the Everton vs City / Arsenal v Brighton weekend City were only a point above us with a game in hand. And that's after they beat us in both head to heads. Just one or two slips in that relentless run from City and we'd have been ahead of them and arguably favourites. It must be dispiriting to win 7 games in a row and the team chasing you just keep winning too. We always knew we had the harder run in. We always knew that squad depth could be an issue for us. But I'm disappointed that we gift wrapped it for them over the last couple of weeks and handed it to them without them having to kick a ball.City may well have won it anyway, but the point I keep trying to hammer home again, and again and again is that what City did or didn’t do didn’t matter it’s what we didn’t do.
I'm not saying Arteta is beyond reproach. There's definite room for improvement. I haven't heard anyone call him a tactical genius or overly fawn over him. But there's been clear progress. Yes, we've spent money but as Chelsea have shown you can throw money around and not get anywhere if there's no strategy.
I completely disagree with this. Last year we should have finished Top 4 and it is a black mark on Arteta that we didn't. But Spurs and us both spent the run in tripping over our laces trying to finish Top 4, had we finished Top 4 we'd have barely limped over the line. This year we've clearly been in the title race till very near the end. Yes, we should have pushed them to the last day, I am deeply disappointed that we didn't. But even that disappointment shows the progress we've made. Before the season you said we'd finish 5th or 6th. I thought we should finish Top 4 (I didn't actually post in that pre-season thread, but I definitely thought we had a chance and it was my expectation given the previous season). Now we're both sitting here moaning that we didn't push City till the last day or even win the league. Doesn't that in and of itself tell you that Arteta has raised the bar for us and shows we've made progress?Ultimately we haven’t achieved more than top four in any tangible sense. If we’d kept the title challenge going to the end of the season it could be said, but no we have met our minimum objective only.
There's definitely room for further improvement, but the level of criticism he's been getting from some keyboard warriors is way out of proportion to the actual situation.
No it’s only lies, Damn lies and statistics if I’d stated that we should have won every single game in that run. I absolutely appreciate that we had three of the toughest away fixtures in those past eight games but ultimately it’s not the results in those fixtures I take exception to…I’m disappointed to get thrashed by city but so many teams have had their arse handed to them there I would accept that it was unreasonable to expect a result. Anfield as you say was creditable even though there is an argument that we should have held onto the two nil lead…but as you will find from looking back…I was quite philosophical about that individual result often to the frustration of others.
Newcastle arguably we did better than I expected us to do.
But West Ham, Southampton, Brighton and Forest…two points from 12….that’s not on. That is what I’m pointing to. These are games we should have won. It’s not to say we will always win those games, but we should expect to and to win not a single one of them….I’d have been cross about that last season let alone in the context of a misfiring title challenge.
The difference between 2nd and 4th is ultimately lost on me. Unless you consider that finishing 2nd to Leicester in 2016 represents anymore of a successful season than finishing 4th behind United, Chelsea and City three years earlier (and I’m fairly sure you don’t). We were in a title chase in 2016.
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