Random Arsenal Shit (When it's not worth starting a thread)

[Özim]

The team Rijkaard had success with had quite a few differences in personnel to the one in 08/09 and very different to the one that Guardiola had success with in 10/11 (compare Champions League final starting XI's).

Yes I agree but he didn't develop Barca's youth team, he was lucky enough to have players come through who were top quality (not least Messi who is an extraordinary player), he did have the core of a winning team that he simply added a few expensive signings to.

His acheivements were very good, but I think they need to be put in perspective a little bit.

I think the problem with Barca's style of play is that it can be nullified by good organised teams, just as Chelsea did several times to them (Barca won one they were fortunate to win), Barca have top players and their style works very well for them, I wouldn't want to see him trying to reproduce it with inferior players though (which invariably they will be) as we'll end up with another post 2006 AW Arsenal.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Guardiola was heavily involved with Barcelona B in fairness, it also helped that his stature as a player is such that players are going to be receptive to him with immediacy.

We can put anybody's achievements in to perspective but you would surely take him over Wenger in a straight choice, in a heartbeat? And I ask that without meaning to sound your qualms about Guardiola's abilities as a coach are any less valid.

Barca's style can be nullified (what teams can't) but those instances are going to be very rare, especially as I do think they are a bit more direct this season.

[Özim]

Yes I'd take him over Wenger for sure because first and foremost it's clear winning is important to him, the style of play however worries me. Barca are an exceptional side with exceptional players, we won't be seeing that here as we don't have the players or the kind of money to bring those players in, take Messi out of the Barca team and suddenly they don't look quite as good.

Counter attacking gives you much more flexibility and a great margin for error IMO.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Until Wenger stops qualifying for the CL, yes, we should stick with him.

So that'll be the end of this season then?

Thank fuck for that!

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Yes I'd take him over Wenger for sure because first and foremost it's clear winning is important to him, the style of play however worries me. Barca are an exceptional side with exceptional players, we won't be seeing that here as we don't have the players or the kind of money to bring those players in, take Messi out of the Barca team and suddenly they don't look quite as good.

Counter attacking gives you much more flexibility and a great margin for error IMO.

I would doubt he would try and replicate Barcelona over here to such a precise degree, I don't think he is that close-minded. In any case, Wenger tries to adhere to a Barcelona template but I don't think we do many of the things that they do anyway, aside from pass it well, without even accounting for comparisons of talent.

Barcelona weren't afraid of counter-attacking, or at least what seems like counter-attacking with the speed they move the ball at. I'm not sure it's something you can really set your stall out as your main tactic, over here, just coach for it when the opportunities arise.

[GP]

Does anyone watch the Fans Forum?

Some mouth-breather has just phoned in with this gem...

'I wanted to talk about the transfer window, right, wot we should do, right, is sign some decent players'

Pro tip right there.

[Boss]

That's not really answering my question.

Anyway though, one of the first things he did (well I say first things it was a few games in to 08/09) was put Messi in that mainstay role, which wasn't exactly the most obvious move to do with Henry and Eto'o still there. Nobody made him bring in Busquets and Pedro but he did it. Why? Because he worked with them at the B levels. Did it work? Yes, immensely so.

Tito doing well doesn't show up Guardiola as being lucky at all - he was Guardiola's assistant. It's fairly safe to assume he's not going to rock the boat (though there have been some differences). Saying he ran off to New York is asanine, he was one of Barcelona's longest ever serving coaches and he was only appointed in 2008. He always maintained that if he felt the players were not responding to hearing the same things again and again in the same way, he would leave before it becomes terminal. I think knowing when to let go is probably one of the qualities most people have been crying out with regards to Wenger, isn't it?

It sounds like you want the perfect candidate (and to win trophies immediately given you say we should just stay with Wenger until we don't make the Champions League), which I am guessing could only possibly be Mourinho.

Although A&W covered some of my thoughts above, basically I think the level of control Wenger has is impossible to shake given how the club is setup (a board that is either unwilling to participate in on pitch matters or knows nothing about football (Kroenke, Gazidis) unlike the 'holy' partnership of Wenger and Dein, so until we get something like that we have to stick with Wenger and the level of control he has.

For us to be successful, it's quite a long shot as in our league we're dealing with two teams that can comfortably outspend us (Chelsea, Citeh) and also the best manager football has ever seen (ManU). No other manager in world football has really had to deal with the problems we have (remain competitive on a budget) apart from ManU and I truly believe Ferguson is so far ahead of the rest that he's the only manager I think would 'guarantee' us success if he come in as a straight swap. For the other managers in world football, even the likes of Guardiola and Mourinho haven't really had to deal with financial constraints Wenger has - if he made some of the fuckups those two have (Ibrahomovic, Chygrynskiy, Caceres etc - even for Mourinho, who has made some errors such as SWP, del Horno, Boulahrouz).

I believe Wenger has made (on average) less mistakes than those managers have but we have a smaller margin for error in terms of replacing them so if we fuck up we have to stick with such players (a la Arshavin, Gervinho) unless someone takes them off our hands. Essentially, I don't think anyone apart from Ferguson or a tactical whizkid could see us win the Premiership in its current climate - Mourinho would improve us tactically for sure, but I'm not sure if he'd be able to turn us into competitors without the ability to massively spend to fix our deficiencies.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

I thought the financial constraints excuse was sent packing already. Didn't Wenger spend something like 50 mil after the United embarrassment last season?

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Although A&W covered some of my thoughts above, basically I think the level of control Wenger has is impossible to shake given how the club is setup (a board that is either unwilling to participate in on pitch matters or knows nothing about football (Kroenke, Gazidis) unlike the 'holy' partnership of Wenger and Dein, so until we get something like that we have to stick with Wenger and the level of control he has.

For us to be successful, it's quite a long shot as in our league we're dealing with two teams that can comfortably outspend us (Chelsea, Citeh) and also the best manager football has ever seen (ManU). No other manager in world football has really had to deal with the problems we have (remain competitive on a budget) apart from ManU and I truly believe Ferguson is so far ahead of the rest that he's the only manager I think would 'guarantee' us success if he come in as a straight swap. For the other managers in world football, even the likes of Guardiola and Mourinho haven't really had to deal with financial constraints Wenger has - if he made some of the fuckups those two have (Ibrahomovic, Chygrynskiy, Caceres etc - even for Mourinho, who has made some errors such as SWP, del Horno, Boulahrouz).

I believe Wenger has made (on average) less mistakes than those managers have but we have a smaller margin for error in terms of replacing them so if we fuck up we have to stick with such players (a la Arshavin, Gervinho) unless someone takes them off our hands. Essentially, I don't think anyone apart from Ferguson or a tactical whizkid could see us win the Premiership in its current climate - Mourinho would improve us tactically for sure, but I'm not sure if he'd be able to turn us into competitors without the ability to massively spend to fix our deficiencies.

Do you think that Wenger will still be at the club regardless of who is next to be appointed? I do get that impression that would be the case personally and would be shocked if we didn't end up appointing Stojkovic.

I think the amount of money that will be coming in to the club next season, even not accounting for the Champions League shortfall (though I think we'll qualify again) is such that there will be more than enough to at least make us far more competitive than we have been before, of course, the likelihood that chance is taken is rather slim but still, the possiblity is greater than before.

I don't want to go on too much about transfer stinkers because all managers will have them, especially as Barcelona (and Real Madrid) will have a President making transfer proclamations so often (and of course wielding influence over transfers anyway) but it also doesn't account for the ability to correct the many coaching deficiencies we have which I am sure you will have noted in that long list you talked about right at the start of the conversation; the parts that should not need multiple sums of money to patch up.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Does anyone watch the Fans Forum?

Some mouth-breather has just phoned in with this gem...

'I wanted to talk about the transfer window, right, wot we should do, right, is sign some decent players'

Pro tip right there.

'Arry.