Random Arsenal Shit (When it's not worth starting a thread)

[Özim]

So your complaint is mainly that people were a bit unkind to you

Suck it up sweetheart you have no entitlement to have your opinion taken seriously. Plus what I’m saying is that on this particular board where I’ve been hsince 2011 I have consistently in that time thought he was the wrong guy for the job and wasn’t ridiculed for holding that view.

People who pay money to watch Arsenal week in, week out in the main didn’t agree with either of us back then. You’re entitled to think they were wrong, but they were equally entitled to think you were wrong.

What complaint? I don't remember complaining I was jut adding my 20 pence worth.

Let's be fair you haven't really been particularly strong in your views, hence the reason you weren't ridiculed, those who put themselves out there more tend to get more abuse, moreover you didn't particularly seem to be someone who wanted Wenger out until recently, maybe you didn't think he was ideal but you certinly weren't obviously someone who thought he should be replaced.

Their entitled to their opinion, it's more this treating Wenger like some sort of god that's a bad thing, the we love Wenger stuff and all that, if you want to make someone think their untouchable and above everyone else then go ahead and treat them like they're a superior being which is what some Arsenal fans have done. He's a guy, who get paid a huge amount to do job, he's not Jesus and not selfless in his quest, there's plenty of people much more deserving of praise than him in the world.

Wenger is the way he is because people made him this way, he was never like that when he arrived, the board have certainly encourage it but so have the fans (they still do when they go after people who demonstrate and want him out).

[Niall_Quinn]

It was a response to the assertion that "back in the day everyone supported him and only a few didn't rate the guy". Look at the replies in those threads. Also look at how there's some decent debate on those threads. We've lost some good posters. None have been banned, I'd welcome most of those back.


I think I'll always have respect for the things he did for us in the early years. When I started going to games we were boring boring Arsenal, at one point we nearly gave up our season tickets it was so dull. The side Wenger transformed us into, he took us to places I never thought I'd see an Arsenal side go. And the fact we now expect title challenges every year is a reflection of that. That should be acknowledged. But it also should be acknowledged that he's past it and we'll never win the biggest prizes under him again. This is the Wenger Paradox, as I like to call it. He's the reason we expect to be right at the top of the game and the reason we aren't.

He gets credit for the stadium move because he was the one who raised our profile to the point where we could sell out a 60,000 seater stadium (according to Wiki our average home attendance in the thoroughly enjoyable 1992/3 season was 24,403).
And I think he did pretty well when we first moved and money was tight to steady the ship.

His control of the club now is worrying and it's disgraceful that he was offered a new contract for even more money in the summer. The fans are being ripped off but if they keep going more fool them. I don't like the way the whole sport has gone, I don't like having a board who care more about the balance sheet than what happens on the field and I don't like having a manger who can't deliver the biggest trophies when we have the resources to compete with anyone.

I'll argue against the more extreme views but I've long since abandoned the "Wenger In" camp, I don't think there are many left in that camp now.

Assuming you watched any of the recent AGM coverage or read some of the fallout, what would you define as an "extreme" view? You accept it's a disgrace Wenger got yet another contract. That makes perfect sense. In football, if you perform you keep your job, if you fail you get replaced. Except at this club where an "extreme" owner (ask the fans of any of the teams this cocksucker has hijacked) retains a failing manager for his own benefit and at the expense of the club. That would be fine if the owner was funding this shit show out of his own pocket. But he's still selling tickets and getting others to fund his profit trip. And you can advise every fan to stop paying, but you're missing the nature of what it means to be a fan, for many fans at least. This isn't a choice between Starbucks and Costa. This is a captive fanbase and the choice being presented is love it or leave it. Why should the fans leave just because some cunt has used his wife's money to hijack the club? I certainly wouldn't (and don't) give the cunt a penny. But what about the fans who go to Arsenal as part of their lifestyle routine and have been doing so for years? Should they become Man Utd fans because they'd get a better deal? Or just accept that things have changed and football for them is now to be dictated by the likes of Kroenke? Or are they allowed to try to hang on to their passion and stick two fingers up at the cunt who is trying to ruin what they hold valuable?

Who is the extremist here? Who genuinely possesses the extreme views?

[Niall_Quinn]

That's a banning


Tbh I had big visions for this place, the point of moving to VBulliten was to give us control and make the messageboard just a part of a bigger site. Honestly, I don't have the get up and go or skills to really make that happen.


This is how I see it, and yes the stagnation at the club is a factor too. There isn't that much new or interesting to say in the endless Groundhog day.

I certainly wouldn't criticise you for setting up and maintaining a free resource for fans to come and spout off. But the request to be "reasonable" is, well, unreasonable.

[Niall_Quinn]

Hmm. Worryingly, I actually agree with a lot of that. I do think Wenger cares about the club, I think he's just too damn stubborn to realise he's not going to win the PL again, every season seems like an increasingly desperate double or quits.
And I don't think #WengerOut will fix much of that either, but it would at least be different and that is probably a good thing in and of itself.

The summer proved beyond all reasonable doubt he doesn't give a shit about the club. He'd have left if he did. He cares about control of the club. This much he has made clear. Laughing out the idea of a football director coming in to help him. Smacking down journalists and telling them things will be done his way, end of. Breaking his promise that he'd leave it to somebody else if he felt he could't progress things. Well how is dropping out of the CL and losing our best players (again) progressing things? He's a fraud and a liar, isn't he? Isn't that what he's demonstrated during his last round of contract shenanigans? A fraud and a liar that cares about what the club delivers to him, and - as we have yet again seen with their profit taking during the transfer window - doesn't give a shit about the ambitions of the fans who fund his little empire. That's another thing he said, if he felt he wasn't wanted he'd go. Well almost everyone wanted him to go by the end of last season. But what he really meant was Kroenke. If Kroenke wants him to go he will. Well duh. Bravo Wenger. If the rumours are true then Ivan wanted him out. So Wenger, ever conscious of delivering what people want, did an end run around the CEO and stitched up a new deal with Stan. That's how much Wenger cares about the club, he doesn't even have respect for his supposed boss. The one he helped appoint. Yeah, for sure, Wenger loves us all.

[Özim]

It was a response to the assertion that "back in the day everyone supported him and only a few didn't rate the guy". Look at the replies in those threads. Also look at how there's some decent debate on those threads. We've lost some good posters. None have been banned, I'd welcome most of those back.


I think I'll always have respect for the things he did for us in the early years. When I started going to games we were boring boring Arsenal, at one point we nearly gave up our season tickets it was so dull. The side Wenger transformed us into, he took us to places I never thought I'd see an Arsenal side go. And the fact we now expect title challenges every year is a reflection of that. That should be acknowledged. But it also should be acknowledged that he's past it and we'll never win the biggest prizes under him again. This is the Wenger Paradox, as I like to call it. He's the reason we expect to be right at the top of the game and the reason we aren't.

He gets credit for the stadium move because he was the one who raised our profile to the point where we could sell out a 60,000 seater stadium (according to Wiki our average home attendance in the thoroughly enjoyable 1992/3 season was 24,403).
And I think he did pretty well when we first moved and money was tight to steady the ship.

His control of the club now is worrying and it's disgraceful that he was offered a new contract for even more money in the summer. The fans are being ripped off but if they keep going more fool them. I don't like the way the whole sport has gone, I don't like having a board who care more about the balance sheet than what happens on the field and I don't like having a manger who can't deliver the biggest trophies when we have the resources to compete with anyone.

I'll argue against the more extreme views but I've long since abandoned the "Wenger In" camp, I don't think there are many left in that camp now.

I never said everyone supported Wenger, but certainly a large percentage were behind him back in the day, there were always a few who didn't (Elche being one).

I don't expect us to challenge for the title anymore, noone does, we'd like to but realise it's not realistic anymore, now all we wish for is something different, some excitement, hope at the beginning of the season, all talk of winning the big prizes has evaporated because we know we won't, so in effect he's lowered expectations to the point that now getting into the top 4 is our biggest hope.


That's a long time ago now, over 12 years since that FA Cup success, the last one with the great team, it's becoming a distant memory, nowadays when think about Arsenal it's not about that anymore, it's about the frustration seeing a club who make loads of money and take their fans for granted whilst delivering a sub standard product.

So you think we wouldn't have moved stadium without Wenger? With the money in the game I'm sure we would, morevoer you forget Wenger is a football manager (even if he isn't so much anymore), his job is to bring success on the pitch, what he was doing in the early days is his best in the job he was being paid for, he clearly loves football so it wasn't a hardship and he was handsomely paid, the fact he got success is great but he wasn't doing it to build a new stadium, he was doing it for himself. I don't see him as the reason for the stadium, sure the success may have fast tracked it somewhat but we'd probably have a new stadium by now anyway.

David Dein was looking at making the club bigger (originally by moving to Wembley) so that was on the cards, ultimately the board had to be willing to put themselves in huge debt for it and made an informated decision, it was a business decision.

[Özim]

The summer proved beyond all reasonable doubt he doesn't give a shit about the club. He'd have left if he did. He cares about control of the club. This much he has made clear. Laughing out the idea of a football director coming in to help him. Smacking down journalists and telling them things will be done his way, end of. Breaking his promise that he'd leave it to somebody else if he felt he could't progress things. Well how is dropping out of the CL and losing our best players (again) progressing things? He's a fraud and a liar, isn't he? Isn't that what he's demonstrated during his last round of contract shenanigans? A fraud and a liar that cares about what the club delivers to him, and - as we have yet again seen with their profit taking during the transfer window - doesn't give a shit about the ambitions of the fans who fund his little empire. That's another thing he said, if he felt he wasn't wanted he'd go. Well almost everyone wanted him to go by the end of last season. But what he really meant was Kroenke. If Kroenke wants him to go he will. Well duh. Bravo Wenger. If the rumours are true then Ivan wanted him out. So Wenger, ever conscious of delivering what people want, did an end run around the CEO and stitched up a new deal with Stan. That's how much Wenger cares about the club, he doesn't even have respect for his supposed boss. The one he helped appoint. Yeah, for sure, Wenger loves us all.

Spot on, I don't buy the ascertion he loves the club anymore, it's about power, loving what he does and probably enjoying his profile (and the money no doubt, but he's made so much from Arsenal that's less of an issue now)

Wenger is a lucky guy, a job for life, earning megabucks, doing whatever he wants, controlling everything with no questions, even being able to go above those who are suppose to be his boss, there's isn't another man in football who has had it that easy, Arsenal is unique in that respect, a big club where success is a distant 4th and where 4th place is the holy grail and when that even when the holy grail isn't reached a payrise is waiting just round the corner.

If I wanted to be successful, I would never move to Arsenal as a player, if I wanted to be rewarded for failure and to have an easy life I would, just ask Walcott, he'll tell you what a lovely life it is.

We do have one goal outside profits, to replicate the Leicester model

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

By that logic no-one should have been banned in the first place

Thanks for agreeing

Next time just say that instead of taking the long way round.

Depends what they were banned for

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

What complaint? I don't remember complaining I was jut adding my 20 pence worth.

Let's be fair you haven't really been particularly strong in your views, hence the reason you weren't ridiculed, those who put themselves out there more tend to get more abuse, moreover you didn't particularly seem to be someone who wanted Wenger out until recently, maybe you didn't think he was ideal but you certinly weren't obviously someone who thought he should be replaced.

Their entitled to their opinion, it's more this treating Wenger like some sort of god that's a bad thing, the we love Wenger stuff and all that, if you want to make someone think their untouchable and above everyone else then go ahead and treat them like they're a superior being which is what some Arsenal fans have done. He's a guy, who get paid a huge amount to do job, he's not Jesus and not selfless in his quest, there's plenty of people much more deserving of praise than him in the world.

Wenger is the way he is because people made him this way, he was never like that when he arrived, the board have certainly encourage it but so have the fans (they still do when they go after people who demonstrate and want him out).

If Wenger had been deified to any real extent then the people who supported him six years ago wouldn’t have turned against him now.

There are a few who do think he is incapable of wrong doing, but such people are what Nietzsche would call untermensch (not to be mistaken with the Nazi use of that word to refer to Jews, gypsies etc). Not enough of them to merit any real serious discussion.

No the difference was I didn’t start going round insulting the fan base or calling Wenger the worst manager the club has ever had. Not because I was frightened of provoking anyone, but because I don’t personally believe either things.

But from 2012 I pushed for Klopp to replace Wenger as well as mentioning other names. Did I sometimes get people accuse me of reacting to bad results? Yes but of course I was....

[Niall_Quinn]

Spot on, I don't buy the ascertion he loves the club anymore, it's about power, loving what he does and probably enjoying his profile (and the money no doubt, but he's made so much from Arsenal that's less of an issue now)

Wenger is a lucky guy, a job for life, earning megabucks, doing whatever he wants, controlling everything with no questions, even being able to go above those who are suppose to be his boss, there's isn't another man in football who has had it that easy, Arsenal is unique in that respect, a big club where success is a distant 4th and where 4th place is the holy grail and when that even when the holy grail isn't reached a payrise is waiting just round the corner.

If I wanted to be successful, I would never move to Arsenal as a player, if I wanted to be rewarded for failure and to have an easy life I would, just ask Walcott, he'll tell you what a lovely life it is.

We do have one goal outside profits, to replicate the Leicester model

And that's not even close to being an extreme view because look at the glaring evidence.

As you say - Theo Walcott.

But what about players with ambition? Cesc, RvC, Ozil, Alexis. Even Ox, who could have easily done a Theo. All gone or looking for the exit - even when big money has been put on the table.

Who creates the environment where mediocrity is a free ride for your whole career? The guy who has had a free ride for over a decade.

This is all so obvious and the only aspect that is extreme is the amount of time fans have put up with it.

Lacazette is next. Wenger is already mismanaging him in the most ridiculous manner. He'll be looking for the exit in a couple of seasons, all the while bitterly regretting he ever came here. You could see it all over his face when he got subbed, again, on the weekend.

And who will want to come? Losers. Not winners.

It's crazy to even have to talk about this. The guy is fucking up on every front and needs to be sacked, urgently, before any more damage can be done. It's just crazy we are in this situation and scary that Wenger can't see it and, despite the mountain of evidence in front of him, thinks he can reverse the ongoing decline. He won't change anything, won't accept help, won't learn from his mistakes and can't even recognise the problems. This is the worst man imaginable to be in charge of a competitive sports team. If anyone thinks that's an "extreme" opinion they should explain why, without bringing up what happened over a decade ago and somehow suggesting any of that is relevant to what's happening here and now.

[GP]

From my point of view the Jedi are evil.