Summer Transfer Misery and Recriminations.

[Power n Glory]

Yes i have heard that argument, the same argument was that it was due to poor turn out at the stadium which the fans say was because of the lack of investment by Kroenke.

Let's not pretend though that saving the taxpayer money was on Kroenke's mind, the point was to illustrate that we have an owner who is more than willing to shaft fans.

Do you understand how an owner is supposed to invest when it comes to American Football? They have a draft system and salary cap. Can he directly invest in the team in the same way it's done in football?

I doubt he was thinking about taxpayers when he made the decision to move but any fan more worried about the lack of investment in a team over investment in their city could probably learn something from Stan. But that's not what's up for debate. It's about ownership and how football clubs are run. Not American football.

[Kano]

Just don't understand why you, and you're not the only one, feel the need to pore over everything he says looking for more reasons to have a go at him.
It's like he's your personal nemesis or something.
There's plenty of material to work with, you don't need to go looking for it.

I agree with you to an extent and while the majority of these statements are a result of being asked a pointed question by a journalist trying to manipulate the current anxiety amongst Arsenal fans, he really doesn't help himself. If he understands the frustrations of the fans and why there is growing unease, then his and the clubs public responses should be more tailored towards something positive. His politician type approach of answering with a non-committal 'third way' most of time. It does show that the club really is out of step with the fans, which only increases the unease.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Do you understand how an owner is supposed to invest when it comes to American Football? They have a draft system and salary cap. Can he directly invest in the team in the same way it's done in football?

I doubt he was thinking about taxpayers when he made the decision to move but any fan more worried about the lack of investment in a team over investment in their city could probably learn something from Stan. But that's not what's up for debate. It's about ownership and how football clubs are run. Not American football.

And what is left of the franchise in St Louis still owes money for the legal fees that it had to pay because the owners didn't want to invest the money to get the stadium up to scratch, and Kroenke has shown no interest in paying off that bill so i doubt the Missouri tax payer will feel they owe him any gratitude.

Investment is more than just players

[Power n Glory]

And what is left of the franchise in St Louis still owes money for the legal fees that it had to pay because the owners didn't want to invest the money to get the stadium up to scratch, and Kroenke has shown no interest in paying off that bill so i doubt the Missouri tax payer will feel they owe him any gratitude.

Investment is more than just players

But do you understand where he should have invested for that franchise to thrive?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

But do you understand where he should have invested for that franchise to thrive?

I understand that it wasn't impossible for that franchise to thrive considering the Rams won the super bowl in 2000 and 2002

That it was convenient for Kroenke because he had land in Inglewood that he had initially purchased for property development

He wasn't screwing over people remote to him either, Kroenke comes from Missouri.

[Power n Glory]

I understand that it wasn't impossible for that franchise to thrive considering the Rams won the super bowl in 2000 and 2002

That it was convenient for Kroenke because he had land in Inglewood that he had initially purchased for property development

He wasn't screwing over people remote to him either, Kroenke comes from Missouri.

How did they win the Super Bowl in 2000 and 2002? Did it come from investment from the owners? If so, how?

Maybe someone else that follows American football can explain.

[Power n Glory]

And what is left of the franchise in St Louis still owes money for the legal fees that it had to pay because the owners didn't want to invest the money to get the stadium up to scratch, and Kroenke has shown no interest in paying off that bill so i doubt the Missouri tax payer will feel they owe him any gratitude.

Investment is more than just players

Just to come back on this point, if you can't invest in the playing staff, is it a case that you have to invest in the stadium? If so, would it make sense to build a new stadium in St Louis if attendance is dropping?

[Niall_Quinn]

This is funny.

It's not funny, it's sad. The guy just talks total shit these days. And everything he says is a pre-excuse for the failure he fucking well knows is ahead. Invariably. The guy's a joke. As an economics professor, theologian, philosopher, fine - but as a football manager he's nowhere, just a sad comedy figure shitting out his bullshit excuses. Always everybody else's fault, always some crappy reason why he can't and won't do his fucking job.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Just to come back on this point, if you can't invest in the playing staff, is it a case that you have to invest in the stadium? If so, would it make sense to build a new stadium in St Louis if attendance is dropping?

Neither the draft or the wage cap stops you from investing totally in the team. Plus let's be honest, even if attendance was at maximum would it have stopped someone like Kroenke moving the franchise back to LA anyway?

[Niall_Quinn]

I understand that, and it is obvious that Wenger believes messianistically in his approach. But his belief that he is doing the best for the Club does not equate either to the question of whether he is doing his best for the club. Footballing success for Arsenal FC is not a subjective issue. It is an objective one. Success is winning trophies. This is not necessarily the case for all clubs who have little realistic hope of doing so - and I will accept that for these clubs the bar is lower, but the test even for these clubs remains an objective one - have they done as well as they can do with the resources at their disposal? When it comes to Arsenal, it is fair to expect a club with our resources to be competing for titles with the best clubs - both at home and in Europe. Doing the best job financially should not be in a manager's remit, and I do not accept that a manager 'doing his best' financially is a manager doing his best for our club.

We all accepted this idea during the stadium project period - because we thought that the caution in the transfer market was the means to ensure that we would compete with the best at a future stage. But recent times have shown this to be a fallacy. As a club we have become bound to a philosophy that is risk averse; uncompetitive and lacking in ambition. The manager is an integral part of this flawed approach - and it being taken with his eyes firmly open.

Which would be just a little bit easier to swallow if we were all in it together, so to speak. But if you're inside then you are making a fucking fortune, obscene amounts. And if you are outside, and the fans are most definitely outside, you are being fleeced a fortune relatively speaking. A one way street. Massively convenient and lucrative for a few, total frustration for the rest. They won't even give us a decent game of football to watch. Instead we get the football equivalent of prudent sustainability - tap, tap, tip, tap, sideway, back, FUCKING SHOOT FFS!

That's why I think all these people, including the manager, are fundamentally dishonest to varying degrees.