Summer Transfer Misery and Recriminations.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I'm disappointed about Jack being loaned out, but only because he's an English academy product. As a player we wont miss him. I've lost faith in our youth development. Almost everyone we get our hands on gets stuck with the same problems. Injury prone, cant defend, no common sense, bad decision making, no/inconsistent end product. It's harder to think of someone who has come from our academy that DOESN'T have those traits

As for Gnabry I'm not too bothered in all honesty. I just don't see where the hype comes from. He's a good player but he doesn't stand out the way a real talent does.

Because i think we are in need of more quality in attacking wide positions, Ox and Walcott often just don't produce the goods. Far more aggrieved about losing Gnabry than Walcott, but I also still believe that it's Gnabry himself engineering the move....either he doesn't fancy his chances of first team football here or more likely he likes the idea of one day playing first team for Bayern Munich.

[Niall_Quinn]

I'm disappointed about Jack being loaned out, but only because he's an English academy product. As a player we wont miss him. I've lost faith in our youth development. Almost everyone we get our hands on gets stuck with the same problems. Injury prone, cant defend, no common sense, bad decision making, no/inconsistent end product. It's harder to think of someone who has come from our academy that DOESN'T have those traits

As for Gnabry I'm not too bothered in all honesty. I just don't see where the hype comes from. He's a good player but he doesn't stand out the way a real talent does.

I think you are describing a player who is managed very poorly. Jack will do well somewhere else I believe. Just like any of our players would do better under different management. Our style kills players. Too technical, too negative, no tempo. Once you have become accustomed to that style your abilities as a rounded footballer are sure to suffer. The effect is not permanent though, or so it seemed in Ramsey's case when he showed us during the Euros what a well rounded and effective player he can be. Hopefully the same will happen for Jack when he heads elsewhere. Maybe a year on loan and God willing that fool Wenger gone next season will see several players introduced back into the fold for a proper go at building a competitive squad.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I think you are describing a player who is managed very poorly. Jack will do well somewhere else I believe. Just like any of our players would do better under different management. Our style kills players. Too technical, too negative, no tempo. Once you have become accustomed to that style your abilities as a rounded footballer are sure to suffer. The effect is not permanent though, or so it seemed in Ramsey's case when he showed us during the Euros what a well rounded and effective player he can be. Hopefully the same will happen for Jack when he heads elsewhere. Maybe a year on loan and God willing that fool Wenger gone next season will see several players introduced back into the fold for a proper go at building a competitive squad.

I really don't know what you saw of Ramsey in the Euros that was that impressive, did you see a player with an improved first touch or an ability to pick out a pass first time without dithering?....because I didn't. His work rate was excellent i'd agree and i think that was what got that Wales side to the semis of an appallingly poor tournament (team work rate)
Wilshere at least i can see the talent even though as PnG rightly points out he has that irritating tendency to over dribble

I agree that Wenger is guilty of ruining the potential of a lot of otherwise top footballers, but I think the only responsibility he can take for Ramsey is playing him in the first place. If by some miracle we are in a position where we are challenging in the next month or so it will be because he has been kept out of the side so his slowness on the ball and lack of passing skill won't be a burden to us.

[Niall_Quinn]

I really don't know what you saw of Ramsey in the Euros that was that impressive, did you see a player with an improved first touch or an ability to pick out a pass first time without dithering?....because I didn't. His work rate was excellent i'd agree and i think that was what got that Wales side to the semis of an appallingly poor tournament (team work rate)
Wilshere at least i can see the talent even though as PnG rightly points out he has that irritating tendency to over dribble

I agree that Wenger is guilty of ruining the potential of a lot of otherwise top footballers, but I think the only responsibility he can take for Ramsey is playing him in the first place. If by some miracle we are in a position where we are challenging in the next month or so it will be because he has been kept out of the side so his slowness on the ball and lack of passing skill won't be a burden to us.

Ramsey was in the company of 10 other players whose sole aim was not possession. They also had purpose. He thrived in the environment and emerged as the best player in the tournament in my opinion (and the opinion of many others). His first touch, like the first touch of so many of our players, can be suspect when he's engaged in those mindless ping, pong, tip, tap progressions we favour at Arsenal. But put him in a normal environment and he's shown he's an excellent player. Wilshere is unfortunate that he's English and has been part of another pointless team that desperately tries to be something it clearly isn't. That will probably change under Fat Sam's stewardship, almost certainly for the better as how could it be worse?

[Kano]

Palace turn down a £21m bid for Zaha. He was never going to go for £15m

Remy to Palace on loan.

And Hart to Torino done

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Ramsey was in the company of 10 other players whose sole aim was not possession. They also had purpose. He thrived in the environment and emerged as the best player in the tournament in my opinion (and the opinion of many others). His first touch, like the first touch of so many of our players, can be suspect when he's engaged in those mindless ping, pong, tip, tap progressions we favour at Arsenal. But put him in a normal environment and he's shown he's an excellent player. Wilshere is unfortunate that he's English and has been part of another pointless team that desperately tries to be something it clearly isn't. That will probably change under Fat Sam's stewardship, almost certainly for the better as how could it be worse?

Don't get me wrong, we have indulged possession football and players who pass just for the sake of it....for all his brilliance at times....Fibreglass was extremely guilty of passing for the sake of passing, often habitually when there wasn't a pass to be made.

But what used to be said about Arsenal when we won major trophies was that we would be defending corners one moment and thirty seconds later we'd have the ball in the opposition net....that requires a speed and precision of passing that a player like Ramsey is just not capable of. It's why i have been so positive about the Xhaka signing when other people on this board have been skeptical, because this is a player who can take possession from deep and make that connection between defence and attack.

[Niall_Quinn]

Don't get me wrong, we have indulged possession football and players who pass just for the sake of it....for all his brilliance at times....Fibreglass was extremely guilty of passing for the sake of passing, often habitually when there wasn't a pass to be made.

But what used to be said about Arsenal when we won major trophies was that we would be defending corners one moment and thirty seconds later we'd have the ball in the opposition net....that requires a speed and precision of passing that a player like Ramsey is just not capable of. It's why i have been so positive about the Xhaka signing when other people on this board have been skeptical, because this is a player who can take possession from deep and make that connection between defence and attack.

I don't think many have been skeptical of Xhaka's ability. But I am deeply skeptical about the idiot we have in charge being able to use it for the purposes you outline. Fast, attacking football. The opposite of what the idiot demands. However, there were signs the idiot will allow us to play 45 minutes of some games this season. Whether that will make things even more infuriating as we match what is possible against what is delivered remains to be seen. Regardless, not all players are Henry and Pires. A good blend of attributes is what's required. For every Henry it's useful to have a Parlour or a Gilberto. Ramsey is a superb worker who can cover more ground in a game that most players. He's combative, willing to get stuck in, can hold the ball well when he's not expected to ping it 3 yards, 45 times in 60 seconds. He arrives in the box well. He works the wing well and is often involved in the key moments that produce goals, even if he doesn't get the direct assist. Avery good all-rounder entirely unsuited to tippy, tappy Wenger ComaBall but very compatible with the PL when used properly. And very good at the International level too, albeit perhaps because there has been a dramatic decline in the standard of players across the board.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I don't think many have been skeptical of Xhaka's ability. But I am deeply skeptical about the idiot we have in charge being able to use it for the purposes you outline. Fast, attacking football. The opposite of what the idiot demands. However, there were signs the idiot will allow us to play 45 minutes of some games this season. Whether that will make things even more infuriating as we match what is possible against what is delivered remains to be seen. Regardless, not all players are Henry and Pires. A good blend of attributes is what's required. For every Henry it's useful to have a Parlour or a Gilberto. Ramsey is a superb worker who can cover more ground in a game that most players. He's combative, willing to get stuck in, can hold the ball well when he's not expected to ping it 3 yards, 45 times in 60 seconds. He arrives in the box well. He works the wing well and is often involved in the key moments that produce goals, even if he doesn't get the direct assist. Avery good all-rounder entirely unsuited to tippy, tappy Wenger ComaBall but very compatible with the PL when used properly. And very good at the International level too, albeit perhaps because there has been a dramatic decline in the standard of players across the board.

We have Elneny and Coquelin for hard working midfielders, and like Parlour and Gilberto and unlike Ramsey they can tackle. Running around a lot doesn't make a player industrious in a useful way.

[Niall_Quinn]

We have Elneny and Coquelin for hard working midfielders, and like Parlour and Gilberto and unlike Ramsey they can tackle. Running around a lot doesn't make a player industrious in a useful way.

You just don't like the guy. If you can't see how well he played in the Euros then it's because you don't want to see. But he most certainly played well, to the point even the pundits paused their Balefest - and you have to be doing it better by a factor of 10 before that happens.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

You just don't like the guy. If you can't see how well he played in the Euros then it's because you don't want to see. But he most certainly played well, to the point even the pundits paused their Balefest - and you have to be doing it better by a factor of 10 before that happens.

I don't like the guy because i don't think he's particularly very good, I'm not disputing he had a good tournament, but even then I think this was more for work rate than technical ability. He will start big games and i think that will be problematic for us as he dwells on the ball too much and will get too easily dispossessed. I don't think he's a terrible player, I just don't think he's good enough for Arsenal....certainly not as a first teamer and when as i say we already have players in the squad who can put in the work rate you praise him for....it seems utterly pointless having him. When actually his name reputation which always totally outshines his ability would see him us bring in quite a bit of money for him, which we could put towards other areas of the squad if we are insistent on being very cautious with our spending.

Frankly he is one of many players we have held onto for far too long, in the hope that they will finally blossom and meet their potential. Ramsey was an outstanding performer three years ago when our football was at it's most slow and turgid, no width and no pace.....and now we have brought pace into the side he has been left behind.