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Thread: Ozil - Do we need him?

  1. #11
    Member Power n Glory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Letters View Post
    http://www.skysports.com/football/ne...-chart-with-19

    And that was WITH our fairly mediocre strikers. I saw games last year where he spent all game putting them on a plate and they kept missing them.
    On a plate? As clear cut as the chances Cavani missed? I recall a lot of missed headers but nothing defence splitting where we missed sitters. He's far far away from Bergkamp's level and I'd say he's not even as good as Cesc.

    When Henry described Bergkamp having the ability to put the ball in your path with the correct pace so you're not breaking a stride, on your stronger side so you're set up on your strong foot or so the ball is away from the defender.....I remember the same being described about Cesc's passing. I rarely see that from Ozil. Maybe it's because we don't have the type of players or we're having to operate with less space. I don't know. But it's rare for me to see a pass from Ozil that has me blown away.

    Heck, thing of that Bergkamp assist to Freddie against Juve. It's even more sublime when I hear Dennis describe what he was doing and buying time for Freddie to make that run.

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    MOe Marc Overmars's Avatar
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    I said last night that although he mainly had a stinker, he picked out Iwobi with a great cut back which of course led to Alexis scoring. I don't think we have another player who would have found that pass, most of the time it would have been a hopeful cross into the box.

    No doubting Ozil is a bit of an enigma but I'd say we definitely need him. Only way I'd contemplate moving him on is if I was confident we'd land a worldie or 2. Which isn't going to happen.
    Last edited by Marc Overmars; 14-09-2016 at 11:33 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Overmars View Post
    I said last night that although he mainly had a stinker, he picked out Iwobi with a great cut back which of course led to Alexis scoring. I don't think we have another player who would have found that pass, most of the time it would have been a hopeful cross into the box.

    No doubting Ozil is a bit of an enigma but I'd say we definitely need him. Only way I'd contemplate moving him on is if I was confident we'd land a worldie or 2. Which isn't going to happen.
    It's a good accurate ball to feet pass. But those are the sort of chances I mean. It still depends heavily on someone controlling the ball and getting the shot off with markers around. It's not the sort of pass that takes the defenders out of the equation and the goal at our mercy. That one moment can't justify his selection.

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    MOe Marc Overmars's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory View Post
    It's a good accurate ball to feet pass. But those are the sort of chances I mean. It still depends heavily on someone controlling the ball and getting the shot off with markers around. It's not the sort of pass that takes the defenders out of the equation and the goal at our mercy. That one moment can't justify his selection.
    It's the vision he provides though. He'll attempt passes that may well take a defence out of the game, which is what happened with that cut back last night.

    I'm not one to crow about assists because as you say a lot still depends on the player scoring. Might be an easy pass but a difficult finish, hard pass and an easy finish etc.

    The chances created stat is why I think Ozil is key, not the assists alone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Overmars View Post
    It's the vision he provides though. He'll attempt passes that may well take a defence out of the game, which is what happened with that cut back last night.

    I'm not one to crow about assists because as you say a lot still depends on the player scoring. Might be an easy pass but a difficult finish, hard pass and an easy finish etc.

    The chances created stat is why I think Ozil is key, not the assists alone.
    The chances he creates are often crosses and cut back. He created 4 chances against Southampton but nothing defining and that's the problem with that stat.

    For me, if playing Sanchez or Perez alongside Giroud enables us to break down teams and score more goals, Ozil has to make way. I think we're left with no where else to go if playing a quicker striker up front leads to nowhere. I think we'll end up going back to Giroud if stays like this which is a road to nowhere.

  6. #16
    Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory View Post
    I believe Jose was pulling a robe a dope and overstating Ozil’s importance just to further push the point about Wenger’s incompetency. The way Mourinho plays, someone like Ozil is perfect. Counter attacks and quick transitions. For us, we need someone more relentless in that role.
    Whilst that kind of thing is totally what Mourinho does, the remarks he made were in response to the criticism Ozil received from english commentary team when playing for Germany in the world cup....saying they were expecting him to play a role that wasn't his.

    Although i have long argued that Arsenal should revert to a more counter attacking style of play, i think Ozil's ability to pick out a pass that can completley cut out a defence, a vision to find players that few others can....i think that works whatever style is played.

    The difference is in this current system he becomes over relied on, and when he doesn't perform well it has a detrimental effect on the whole attack.

  7. #17
    Administrator Letters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory View Post
    On a plate? As clear cut as the chances Cavani missed? I recall a lot of missed headers but nothing defence splitting where we missed sitters. He's far far away from Bergkamp's level and I'd say he's not even as good as Cesc.

    When Henry described Bergkamp having the ability to put the ball in your path with the correct pace so you're not breaking a stride, on your stronger side so you're set up on your strong foot or so the ball is away from the defender.....I remember the same being described about Cesc's passing. I rarely see that from Ozil. Maybe it's because we don't have the type of players or we're having to operate with less space. I don't know. But it's rare for me to see a pass from Ozil that has me blown away.

    Heck, thing of that Bergkamp assist to Freddie against Juve. It's even more sublime when I hear Dennis describe what he was doing and buying time for Freddie to make that run.
    Comparisons to other players are irrelevant. OK, he's not as good as Bergkamp but comparing him to one of our best ever players is not helpful.
    The thread title is do we need Ozil.
    He was our top assister last year and, even with our fairly middling strikers he was top assister in the PL.
    So yes, of course we need him.

  8. #18
    Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
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    Don't even know why he is comparing him to Bergkamp, that's not even comparing Apples and Oranges that's comparing Apples and House Bricks

    Fabregas again, i think Wenger ball came about as a way of facilitating Fabregas in the team, Fabregas was excellent at picking out players with passes but a) ultimately was always playing with better players in front of him than Ozil does and b) Fabregas was always a bit too fond of the sideways pass and passing when there was not a pass on for the sake of it for my liking.

    I repeat again there are so few players about that have the ability and vision to find players with passing that Ozil does, to ability to kill a defence even when he is crowded out and back to goal with one pass to a player who has the intelligence to read it.

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    Ask not do we need Ozil, but does Ozil need us? His heart doesn't seem in it for us.

  10. #20
    Member Power n Glory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Letters View Post
    Comparisons to other players are irrelevant. OK, he's not as good as Bergkamp but comparing him to one of our best ever players is not helpful.
    The thread title is do we need Ozil.
    He was our top assister last year and, even with our fairly middling strikers he was top assister in the PL.
    So yes, of course we need him.
    I refer to other players so there is a clear definition of what we're talking about in terms of quality chances being created. I mentioned Cesc also. Heck, we didn't create anything one to what was created for Cavani last night and I don't know if that was down to our lax defending or just poor application from the players.

    I also compare his good run last season to what we've seen from past players. Was it a one off because we've seen it happen before. Can we expect Ozil to produce at that level again?

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