Winter Transfer Despair and Bafflement.

[Özim]

Yes. I have changed my mind about Wenger
I hoped he would push us on when the money became available. He didn't.
What I haven't done is backdated my views 10+ years or started pretending I think Wenger is suddenly a dribbling imbecile.
It's all the hyperbolic nonsense I find tiresome.

If Wenger hadn't failed so misreably you'd be the first one piping up telling people how they were wrong and how you told us he was great, the thing is you can't because he's been pretty poor and people are calling him out.

He's not much of a manager, everyone can see that, he's been shown up for what he is now, there's no denying that, he's been called out left right and center and most people don't respect him anymore,

Moreover noone really wants him here either and he's making the fanbase turn off.

[Cripps]

Yes. I have changed my mind about Wenger.

[Letters]

If Wenger hadn't failed so misreably you'd be the first one piping up telling people how they were wrong and how you told us he was great, the thing is you can't because he's been pretty poor and people are calling him out.

I thought we should stick with him and hoped that the first FA Cup was the sign of greater things to come. The signing of Ozil and Sanchez seemed like the start of a new transfer policy which could potentially push us on. It's increasingly clear that it wasn't and that Wenger will never land us another title. So yeah, #WengerOut. And had it gone the way I hoped then yes of course I'd be pleased we stuck with him and would feel vindicated. But just because it didn't go that way, that doesn't mean that I now think he is "awful" or has assembled an "average" squad. We're back in the top 4 right now FFS, he can't be doing absolutely everything wrong. Is it really so hard to have a more nuanced view?

[Cripps]

I thought we should stick with him and hoped that the first FA Cup was the sign of greater things to come.

Well, that's not true, is it. You were Wenger out in 2011, then Wenger in in 2012, and now you're Wenger out again.

Here's you in 2011, a year before the previous quote. Title 'should wenger be replaced as Arsenal manager?' :

I've gone for yes. No other club at this level would have kept a manager after this many years without a trophy.
He's failed to address some fairly obvious flaws in the squad.
I do think we'll get worse after he goes but I just need someone I believe in again.

http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/sh...full=1#post523

But I thought you're not allowed to change your view Letters

Letters once again on his hypocritical high horse

[Letters]

So what are you saying Letters? Because 6 years ago I didn't want to see Wenger ripped apart, now 6 years on and not within a mile of a challenge, having even dropped out of that cherished 4th place spot, Wenger gets a perpetual free pass?

No, I'm absolutely not saying that. Why do you always keep building this straw man?
I've repeatedly said I think he should be sacked. You don't seem to believe I actually think that though, as if you think it's completely impossible to think Wenger should be sacked without thinking he's as bad as some on here make out.

Giving him a free pass and criticising ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING he does are not the only two options.

Just because I don't think he's a dribbling imbecile who cannot do a single thing right does not mean I "support the man". These are not the only two options.
Just because I don't think he's a dribbling imbecile who cannot do a single thing right does not mean I think that the last few transfer windows are a roaring success which deserve no criticism. These are not the only two options.
Just because I don't think he's a dribbling imbecile who cannot do a single thing right does not mean I think that nobody should criticise Wenger. These are not the only two options. I have criticised him myself when he's done crazy things like put Giroud and Lacazette on the bench at Anfield and the Ethiad.

Is this really so difficult to understand? Really?

[Letters]

Well, that's not true, is it. You were Wenger out in 2011, then Wenger in in 2012, and now you're Wenger out again.

It's almost like I have the ability to change my mind over time depending on changing information.
As I said to Zim a while back (I note he ignored the point), constancy of opinion as information changes is not something to aspire to. It's constancy of opinion which means we still have a Flat Earth Society.
For the hard of thinking, it's not people changing their opinion I've ever had a problem with. It's people doing so and then pretending they always held the previous opinion.
And it's people being unable to argue in any shades of grey. If you don't think Wenger is a **** and everything he does should be criticised then clearly you an AKB who thinks Wenger can do no wrong and should stay at the club forever.
Those really aren't the only two options.

[Niall_Quinn]

Yes. I have changed my mind about Wenger
I hoped he would push us on when the money became available. He didn't.
What I haven't done is backdated my views 10+ years or started pretending I think Wenger is suddenly a dribbling imbecile.
It's all the hyperbolic nonsense I find tiresome.

Nobody is backdating their views. Over the last decade there was a point where Wenger COULD HAVE turned it around. He passed it up and carried on with his usual old shit. Which resulted in what? No title challenge. Not even close. Not even when everyone else imploded except Leicester City, a club with a fraction of the resources at Wenger's disposal. When literally everything went his way he still fucked it up. Some people, myself included, gave him the benefit of the doubt at the time. One last chance to prove he wasn't totally out of his depth. And he blew it, leaving no doubt whatsoever. He's a fraud, a has-been. Over 10 years without a sniff and, unbelievably, his European record is getting worse. 10-2 against Bayern? Twice? Seriously?

There's no debate to be had. His record speaks for itself.

But for some reason you refuse to see it, constantly trying to replace these grand failures at the top level with FA cup wins. Cup wins are a one day distraction from the main event. An event Wenger hasn't had the ability to get within a mile of in over 10 years now. So tell me, where's the revisionism? What's hyperbolic about pointing to the guy's record and calling him out on the facts? He is a shitty manager, because he's got the record to prove it. Almost 10 million quid for the shit he shovels?

I know you keep repeating all that guff about wanting him gone, etc, etc. And yet you have this enduring need to leap in and defend every criticism made against him. Worse, you dive in and WUM at the slightest upturn in events as if they are a seismic shift and every doubter has been proven wrong and warrants ridicule. But you're the ridiculous one. The guy who even now defends this manager you supposedly want to see sacked. Nuanced you say? Bizarre more like. Some sort of cultish obsession.

10 years of failure Letters. This is Arsenal FC, not that shitty little lot down at the lane and certainly not Arsene FC. But for as long as a section of the fan base keeps defending this guy's indefensible record, we'll be stuck in this time loop and it wouldn't surprise me if another 10 years from now you'll be sat here putting lipstick on 20 years of dross and laughing at greying supporters who are on their knees begging the old goat to fuck off.

[Cripps]

It's almost like I have the ability to change my mind over time depending on changing information.
As I said to Zim a while back (I note he ignored the point), constancy of opinion as information changes is not something to aspire to. It's constancy of opinion which means we still have a Flat Earth Society.
For the hard of thinking, it's not people changing their opinion I've ever had a problem with. It's people doing so and then pretending they always held the previous opinion.
And it's people being unable to argue in any shades of grey. If you don't think Wenger is a **** and everything he does should be criticised then clearly you an AKB who thinks Wenger can do no wrong and should stay at the club forever.
Those really aren't the only two options.

Blah blah. You got on your high horse and ridiculed NQ for changing his opinion and revisionism and when you were found out for doing the same you go into some defensive bollocks and philosophical crap

Hypocritical Letters that'll be another one to the list

[Niall_Quinn]

No, I'm absolutely not saying that. Why do you always keep building this straw man?
I've repeatedly said I think he should be sacked. You don't seem to believe I actually think that though, as if you think it's completely impossible to think Wenger should be sacked without thinking he's as bad as some on here make out.

Giving him a free pass and criticising ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING he does are not the only two options.

Just because I don't think he's a dribbling imbecile who cannot do a single thing right does not mean I "support the man". These are not the only two options.
Just because I don't think he's a dribbling imbecile who cannot do a single thing right does not mean I think that the last few transfer windows are a roaring success which deserve no criticism. These are not the only two options.
Just because I don't think he's a dribbling imbecile who cannot do a single thing right does not mean I think that nobody should criticise Wenger. These are not the only two options. I have criticised him myself when he's done crazy things like put Giroud and Lacazette on the bench at Anfield and the Ethiad.

Is this really so difficult to understand? Really?

Yeah. Coming from you it's impossible to understand.

If the goal is to get Wenger out then where's the advantage in monitoring this place to ensure anything you consider beyond your self adjudicated boundary is picked up and addressed? Isn't that the typical behaviour of a supporter, rather than a critic? You could just leave stuff alone. You could express your own opinion. Or you could engage in any of the other debates that crop up. Transfer dealings. The power struggle behind the scenes. Whatever.

Instead, you WUM. You're oh so coy and reasonable when challenged. But have a look back over the last few weeks and what will you see? Digs at other posters about average squads and awful managers. You don't attack the man you want sacked, but you do attack those who want to see him sacked.

Can you see why I have a problem understanding and believing your claims?

[Niall_Quinn]

It's almost like I have the ability to change my mind over time depending on changing information.
As I said to Zim a while back (I note he ignored the point), constancy of opinion as information changes is not something to aspire to. It's constancy of opinion which means we still have a Flat Earth Society.
For the hard of thinking, it's not people changing their opinion I've ever had a problem with. It's people doing so and then pretending they always held the previous opinion.
And it's people being unable to argue in any shades of grey. If you don't think Wenger is a **** and everything he does should be criticised then clearly you an AKB who thinks Wenger can do no wrong and should stay at the club forever.
Those really aren't the only two options.

Unbelievable, tbf.

Literally a couple of hours after he's called me out with a post from 2011 (which didn't even make the point he was trying to make). Called me out for what? Changing my mind. Apparently.

There's no limit, is there?