Match Reaction vs West Ham (away).

[Letters]

This is where it gets ridiculous. You set the parameters of the argument and choose to focus on a date range I never mentioned or even originally referred to.

I've given my analysis of how I see things overall in Wenger's time with us. Roughly 3 phases. 1997-2004 we were in the top 2. And the 2004 side was way better than the 1998 one.
Then there was 2 years of rapid decline to 2006 where from the dizzy heights of 2004's Invincibles we were just barely hanging in the top 4.
Since then it has been pretty stagnant although I do agree with HCZ about slow rot which if we lose Ozil and Sanchez this summer could finally see the whole house fall down.

If you're arguing that we've declined since the glory years then, well, duh! No-one would dispute that, I certainly never have.

Let me show you what I’m referring to when looking at another decline since we can both can agree that we’ve dropped off from the title challenging days. This is about what we’ve seen in recent seasons and I’ll give some context.

2016 – 2nd - 71 points
2017 – 5th – 75 points
2018 - ??

If your argument is that we are in another period of decline then my stance on that is "maybe". But the '??' means it's impossible to tell right now. No-one would sensibly claim that the years from 2014-2016 where we 'charged' from 4th to 3rd to 2nd were ones of progress. A drop from 2nd-5th could be the start of a decline and we're not exactly setting the world alight this year but we're well in touch with the top 4 so it remains to be seen how this season will pan out.

It’s worth noting that you’re not speaking to someone that has predicted we’d drop out of the top 4 each year.

Then I don't know what our quarrel is. My argument is against those people who have been saying that we've been in decline for the last 10 years. The facts don't bear that out.
Whether we're in decline now...that is certainly plausible but I'd suggest the data isn't there to state that definitively yet.
I'm not "dressing it up" as a blip, we simply can't tell whether it was a blip until this season finishes and we know where we ended up. This season so far is not exactly encouraging though.

By standing still we get left behind. It’s as simple as that and that’s without me even getting into the whole tactical side of the things and the repeated errors we see from the club and manager.

Well, I agree with that. And the real decline has been in terms of how enjoyable it is watching our games. Which is part of why I don't.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Durability is another factor

In the last two title winning seasons, we conceded the first goal in a game 15 times from 76 games and of those 15 games we only went on to lose one of those (home to Leeds 2-1)

And in fact went on to win 9 of those fifteen games - which is a 60% turnaround rate

And compare that to the last five years where if we concede the first goal in a game there is only a 20% chance of a turn around.

[Niall_Quinn]

My argument is against those people who have been saying that we've been in decline for the last 10 years. The facts don't bear that out.

Your interpretation of the facts doesn't bear it out, whereas everyone else's does. If GW was a democracy there would be no dispute, the decline would be established. However, it's a fascist dictatorship run by abusive tyrants. Therefore, the stagnation propaganda survives despite the evidence. Instead of this injustice being overturned and the truth unchained, we get Christmas smilies. How people can tolerate this is a complete mystery to me.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Your interpretation of the facts doesn't bear it out, whereas everyone else's does. If GW was a democracy there would be no dispute, the decline would be established. However, it's a fascist dictatorship run by abusive tyrants. Therefore, the stagnation propaganda survives despite the evidence. Instead of this injustice being overturned and the truth unchained, we get Christmas smilies. How people can tolerate this is a complete mystery to me.

Do you feel ever that you can’t express your views on here?

You don’t particularly seem constrained

The only objection I take to the moderators is when they’ve deleted the personal abuse I sent to Vieira and vice versa. I enjoyed that.

[Niall_Quinn]

Durability is another factor

In the last two title winning seasons, we conceded the first goal in a game 15 times from 76 games and of those 15 games we only went on to lose one of those (home to Leeds 2-1)

And in fact went on to win 9 of those fifteen games - which is a 60% turnaround rate

And compare that to the last five years where if we concede the first goal in a game there is only a 20% chance of a turn around.

Tbf, we only start playing in the last 10 minutes. If we extrapolate to the whole 90 it shows the true turnaround rate to be 180%, which is considerably better than anyone else in the league. More evidence to suggest we our outperforming our rivals.

[Niall_Quinn]

Do you feel ever that you can’t express your views on here?

You don’t particularly seem constrained

The only objection I take to the moderators is when they’ve deleted the personal abuse I sent to Vieira and vice versa. I enjoyed that.

They've banned most of my accounts now.

[Cripps]

My favourite part is where he uses the term 'slow rot' because he knows he can't use the word decline

[Power n Glory]

I've given my analysis of how I see things overall in Wenger's time with us. Roughly 3 phases. 1997-2004 we were in the top 2. And the 2004 side was way better than the 1998 one.
Then there was 2 years of rapid decline to 2006 where from the dizzy heights of 2004's Invincibles we were just barely hanging in the top 4.
Since then it has been pretty stagnant although I do agree with HCZ about slow rot which if we lose Ozil and Sanchez this summer could finally see the whole house fall down.

If you're arguing that we've declined since the glory years then, well, duh! No-one would dispute that, I certainly never have.


If your argument is that we are in another period of decline then my stance on that is "maybe". But the '??' means it's impossible to tell right now. No-one would sensibly claim that the years from 2014-2016 where we 'charged' from 4th to 3rd to 2nd were ones of progress. A drop from 2nd-5th could be the start of a decline and we're not exactly setting the world alight this year but we're well in touch with the top 4 so it remains to be seen how this season will pan out.



Then I don't know what our quarrel is. My argument is against those people who have been saying that we've been in decline for the last 10 years. The facts don't bear that out.
Whether we're in decline now...that is certainly plausible but I'd suggest the data isn't there to state that definitively yet.
I'm not "dressing it up" as a blip, we simply can't tell whether it was a blip until this season finishes and we know where we ended up. This season so far is not exactly encouraging though.



Well, I agree with that. And the real decline has been in terms of how enjoyable it is watching our games. Which is part of why I don't.

Hey, numbers man - how can last season be a blip if we finished 5th but on 75 points? Isn't that a sign that the tide is rising and the season prior to that was a blip because we finished 2nd with 71 points?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

My favourite part is where he uses the term 'slow rot' because he knows he can't use the word decline

That’s me who used the term slow rot, because I think it’s more an appropriate description than decline

It’s not that we aren’t declining.

[Cripps]

That’s me who used the term slow rot

Yes and he agrees with it.

Which essentially means he agrees we've declined.