Match Reaction vs West Ham (away).

[Letters]

Now wouldn't you say that's a decline and not just stagnation?

Ah, the D word. I agree with MO, there has been a clear decline in terms of quality an enjoyability of our play. In terms of end result though. Here are our position, points total and points off the top since 2004

2005 2nd 83 8
2006 4th 67 24
2007 4th 68 21
2008 3rd 83 4
2009 4th 72 18
2010 3rd 75 11
2011 4th 68 12
2012 3rd 70 19
2013 4th 73 16
2014 4th 79 7
2015 3rd 75 12
2016 2nd 71 10
2017 5th 75 18

I defy you to draw a graph of any of that and draw a line which shows a clear decline.. Since 2008 we haven't got over 80 points. Only once have we got within 10 points of the eventual champions. It's 10 years of bumbling around in the top 4, neither progress nor decline, stagnation. Last year was the first time we dropped out of the top 4 and that was only by 2 points. Those high fiving themselves and saying "told you so"...I'd suggest that you can make almost any prediction in a sport where fortunes fluctuate so much and if you keep repeating it you'll be "right" eventually. And will it be a one off slip out of the top 4? Impossible to say right now. We are 7th right now but only a point off 4th.

NQ made the point that we have gone from a "top 2" side to a "top 4" one and now a "top 6" side. My take on that is that there isn't a "top 2" any more. Chelsea and City have bought their way in. Spurs and Liverpool have done better the last couple of years, hence the top 6, but both are only a point above us right now. And actually it's only one year that both finished above us. I'll judge whether they finish above us this year in May . I don't believe any manager will come in and we will be regularly top 2, I don't think that's possible any more, none of the other usual suspects have managed it consistently. But I do believe another manager would get us challenging and even if they didn't it would at least be different, and it's getting to the point where that in itself would be a good thing.

Looking at the actual standings, points totals and gap off the top the last 10 years have been one of stagnation, not decline. It's too early to say whether last year's 5th place was a one off or the start of a trend. I'd say we are in real danger of decline if we lose both Ozil and Sanchez and don't find adequate replacements.

[Marc Overmars]

People like Moh and Ty are entrenched, they are never going to change their minds

Ty at least is honest enough to admit it that there will never be a time when he won’t support Wenger

Moh hides behind oh well if I trusted the board to get in a proper replacement I would back getting rid of him

Knowing there’s no chance of Kroenke going or a significant change up in the running of the club

Be careful what you wish for holds no pull, what exactly are they afraid of happening?

Stockholm syndrome, they're just afraid of the unknown. But anything has to be more exciting than knowing exactly what is going to happen every season. Be careful what you wish for? I'm pretty sure no one wished for what we're currently getting.

Thing is, it's not going to get worse than it already has because we're part of the established status quo and have the money to ensure we remain at a certain level. This is why I don't understand anyone telling me to be cautious about life after Wenger because I can't fucking wait!

[Letters]

Stockholm syndrome, they're just afraid of the unknown. But anything has to be more exciting than knowing exactly what is going to happen every season. Be careful what you wish for? I'm pretty sure no one wished for what we're currently getting.

Thing is, it's not going to get worse than it already has because we're part of the established status quo and have the money to ensure we remain at a certain level. This is why I don't understand anyone telling me to be cautious about life after Wenger because I can't fucking wait!

I was once like them...
I think when money was tight (and it was, let's not start all this revisionism) Wenger did reasonably well to keep us "up there". In that era I don't think it was unreasonable to think that we should give Wenger some benefit of the doubt and hope that when the money started flowing again we'd be back up there. The signings of Ozil and Sanchez and the FA Cups seemed like promising signs but we are still woefully short when it he comes to the biggest prizes. We still can't compete financially with Chelsea, City or Utd but we can certainly do a lot more than we are.

[GP]

No title challenges in a decade and barely escaping relegation last season means he needs to go now.

Time for people like Letters to stop defending literally everything he does.

[Letters]

Et tu, GP?

[GP]

I don't speak French unlike your bumchum wenga

[Niall_Quinn]

Ah, the D word. I agree with MO, there has been a clear decline in terms of quality an enjoyability of our play. In terms of end result though. Here are our position, points total and points off the top since 2004

2005 2nd 83 8
2006 4th 67 24
2007 4th 68 21
2008 3rd 83 4
2009 4th 72 18
2010 3rd 75 11
2011 4th 68 12
2012 3rd 70 19
2013 4th 73 16
2014 4th 79 7
2015 3rd 75 12
2016 2nd 71 10
2017 5th 75 18

I defy you to draw a graph of any of that and draw a line which shows a clear decline.. Since 2008 we haven't got over 80 points. Only once have we got within 10 points of the eventual champions. It's 10 years of bumbling around in the top 4, neither progress nor decline, stagnation. Last year was the first time we dropped out of the top 4 and that was only by 2 points. Those high fiving themselves and saying "told you so"...I'd suggest that you can make almost any prediction in a sport where fortunes fluctuate so much and if you keep repeating it you'll be "right" eventually. And will it be a one off slip out of the top 4? Impossible to say right now. We are 7th right now but only a point off 4th.

NQ made the point that we have gone from a "top 2" side to a "top 4" one and now a "top 6" side. My take on that is that there isn't a "top 2" any more. Chelsea and City have bought their way in. Spurs and Liverpool have done better the last couple of years, hence the top 6, but both are only a point above us right now. And actually it's only one year that both finished above us. I'll judge whether they finish above us this year in May . I don't believe any manager will come in and we will be regularly top 2, I don't think that's possible any more, none of the other usual suspects have managed it consistently. But I do believe another manager would get us challenging and even if they didn't it would at least be different, and it's getting to the point where that in itself would be a good thing.

Looking at the actual standings, points totals and gap off the top the last 10 years have been one of stagnation, not decline. It's too early to say whether last year's 5th place was a one off or the start of a trend. I'd say we are in real danger of decline if we lose both Ozil and Sanchez and don't find adequate replacements.

My new take on it is there's no "top 2" or "top 4" or "top 6". Leicester proved that. One year they are battling relegation, next they are champions. So what we really have is a Top 20. Now it just so happens this club has never been out of the Top 20 since the PL began! It's hard to know what else the club could do to please some of these fans.

[Letters]

:shitpost:

[Niall_Quinn]

I don't know how we can be expected to beat clubs that park the bus at their own stadiums. Not when Utd and the gypos have so much money. If we had FFP, our 50 mill striker who was on the bench might have scored. And look at what the chav money has done to Kos. Look at the mistakes he's making. As for Utd, don't get me started. Money, money, money, and off goes Ramsey running up the field. Pep gets his chequebook out, Bif misses an open goal. We could have signed Lemar for 50 mill, but Oh No, Abramovich has loads of cash!

These are the realities Wenger has had to deal with. And he's done pretty well. All this while he was digging out the foundations for the new stadium and hauling the bricks in. Yet fans complain about his pay rise. They should try building a stadium themselves, rather than moaning when Xhaka passes straight to the opposition causing us to concede a goal.

[Letters]

:shitpost: