Match Reaction vs West Ham (away).

[Letters]

In 1998 we won the league with 78 points. Last season we finished on 75 points. In 2014 we finished on 79 points. Would anyone in their right mind argue that we’re slightly better than the 98 team or just a few points off from them?

What are you looking at now? Points total or league position? I've provided both but the graph you asked for was league position. I've provided it.
No-one would sensibly claim that there has been no decline since 1998. Clearly we are nowhere near at that level.
But people for years have been saying we are "in decline". There has been no steady decline since 1998.
There was a pretty consistent level between 1998 and 2004, if anything an improvement culminating in "The Invincibles" in 2004.
In 2 years we tumbled from that dizzy height to 4th place, 67 points, 24 points off the top in 2006.
Since then we've pretty much stayed at that level. There have been hints at improvement, 2008 the closest we came to a title challenge. But overall we've bumbled around the top 4.
There has been no consistent decline or improvement, just stagnation.

Look at the part of the graph from 2006 till the current day and tell me you can draw anything other than a pretty straight line through it.
Last year we did finally fall out of the top 4 but we don't know yet whether that was the start of more decline or a one off. We won't be able to tell till the end of this season and the next couple of years.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Agreed, although it has to be acknowledged that that step down to a "top 4" club instead of a "top 2" club happened when Chelsea and City bought their way in. As I said above, there isn't a "top 2" any more.



Arguably, but one year outside the top 4 and then only by 2 points does not definitively show that. This season will add another data point and right now it's very hard to call where that data point will lie.
We won't finish top 2 but 3rd is arguably and 4th definitely up for grabs. Impossible to tell right now.

It’s acknowledged by the statement that stagnation in this league is the same as going backwards over a period of time

The facts are clear, since the 08/09 season we have failed to go through a season losing fewer than 7 games

Since 04/05 we have failed to win more than 24 games in a season.

We have failed to ever win more than 15 out of 19 home games and average 12 since the move to the Emirates

We average 8-9 wins away from home since moving to the Emirates.

So our average is essentially 21 wins a season, a total that hasn’t been good enough to win the league ever

[Letters]

So our average is essentially 21 wins a season, a total that hasn’t been good enough to win the league ever

Right. But since the fairly alarming decline from the dizzy heights of the Invincibles in 2004 to 2006 when we got (I think) our lowest points total under Wenger there has been a fairly consistent level.
Consistently not good enough, but the last 10 years have NOT been ones of steady decline.
Whether last season's 5th place was the start of another drop in level remains to be seen. It's certainly possible, if we lose Ozil and Sanchez without replacement then even probably. But it's impossible to know right now.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Right. But since the fairly alarming decline from the dizzy heights of the Invincibles in 2004 to 2006 when we got (I think) our lowest points total under Wenger there has been a fairly consistent level.
Consistently not good enough, but the last 10 years have NOT been ones of steady decline.
Whether last season's 5th place was the start of another drop in level remains to be seen. It's certainly possible, if we lose Ozil and Sanchez without replacement then even probably. But it's impossible to know right now.

The point I’m making is that we are standing still but in standing still we are moving backwards

It’s been a very slow decline with peaks and troughs, but as I’ve said for 12 years or more we have lacked the fortitude to even challenge for the title

And now we are entering the realm where we may not be that competitive for top four. The world rotates but we don’t feel it move

[Cripps]

What are you looking at now? Points total or league position? I've provided both but the graph you asked for was league position. I've provided it.
No-one would sensibly claim that there has been no decline since 1998. Clearly we are nowhere near at that level.
But people for years have been saying we are "in decline". There has been no steady decline since 1998.
There was a pretty consistent level between 1998 and 2004, if anything an improvement culminating in "The Invincibles" in 2004.
In 2 years we tumbled from that dizzy height to 4th place, 67 points, 24 points off the top in 2006.
Since then we've pretty much stayed at that level. There have been hints at improvement, 2008 the closest we came to a title challenge. But overall we've bumbled around the top 4.
There has been no consistent decline or improvement, just stagnation.

Look at the part of the graph from 2006 till the current day and tell me you can draw anything other than a pretty straight line through it.
Last year we did finally fall out of the top 4 but we don't know yet whether that was the start of more decline or a one off. We won't be able to tell till the end of this season and the next couple of years.

starts off by saying there's been no decline then finishes by saying "last year we did finally fall out of the top 4 but we don't know yet whether that was the start of more decline"

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I think he’s trying to argue that we haven’t been on a downward spiral..which we haven’t. Just a very slow sustained period of entropy.

[Letters]

I think he’s trying to argue that we haven’t been on a downward spiral..which we haven’t. Just a very slow sustained period of entropy.

It's not even an argument, it's just a fact. Since 2006 there has been no steady decline, no spiral downwards.
That really isn't an opinion, the facts show that clearly.

But I take the point that other teams have improved while we've stood still which makes our top 4 place less assured. That said, there were years back in the day when the more hysterical posters said we would end up in mid-table or worse and that never happened. Quite amusing that those posters now pretend they've been vindicated after one year where we finished 5th by 2 points.
There is a worry if Ozil and Sanchez go though that we will be seriously lacking quality and if we haven't finished top 4 this year it will be hard to attract quality.

[Power n Glory]

I think he’s trying to argue that we haven’t been on a downward spiral..which we haven’t. Just a very slow sustained period of entropy.

Goal post shifting in other words.

[Cripps]

Goal post shifting in other words.

Listen stop feeling vindicated for being right

[Letters]

Goal post shifting in other words.

Do try responding to what I'm actually saying, not what you think I am. You asked for a graph, I provided one which shows a complete flat line since 2006.
Where has the decline been since then?