Wenger's future, possible extension and possible... departure?

[Mac76]

Conte is a good manager but his recruitment at Chelsea has been very sketchy. Barkley and Drinkwater are very questionable buys, in Drinkwater's case that was a lot of money spent on an average player IMO. If either player would have been bought by Arsenal this place would have been in meltdown!

I also question how much Conte has developed players in his time at Chelsea.

His track record is very good though and he seems pretty good at extracting high quality performances out of his teams at times...his record this season at Chelsea though is very questionable...

Barkley's a dud but Drinkwater's been very solid this season and getting praise

i'm slightly bothered by Conte's managing to win the league but still fall out with the Chelski heriarchy, but i think he would be good for us - a real breath of fresh air, kick the players up the arse and drive through change at the club

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Thing is I don't care, had he been successful you can bet your bottom dollar he wouldn't have got the sack, they sacked him for their own reasons and clearly didn't value him enough not to, because as I said before he's totally unproven, no record of success and inherited an already top team from Klopp, a team who had largely down very well in the CL.

Stop being such a ridiculous man. It was literally a matter of public record the bad blood between Tuchel and the management team, even to the extent where Tuchel banned Sven from the training ground and apparently didn't even speak to him for almost a year. Why do you keep ignoring this just to push your head cannon?

Read Zorc & Watzke's comments on his dismissal,

"worn ourselves out during this time in our dealings with the coaching team."

"It's about basic values such as trust, respect, teamwork and communication skills, about authority and identity. It's about reliability and loyalty.

"Unfortunately, we couldn't see a basis for continued work together built on trust with a successful outlook in the current personnel constellation."


The breakdown in relationship made his position untenable.

And Klopp nearly got the same team relegated the season before so yeah that's not true either. Unlike Tuchel, Klopp struggled to cope with Dortmund's best players being poached season after season.

As for your point about beng close to Bayern, 10 and 18 points isn't close in my book, close would be within a few points maybe but not 10 or 18 and his current record if very relevant, it's all we have to judge him by therefore what he's achieved is important and right now it's not impressive at all.

He got the same points tally in the first season that a lot of teams that win the Bundesliga (like Klopp's Dortmund team) get. What's so difficult to understand & appreciate about that?

Bayern being unbelievable for a few seasons doesn't change that fact.

As for other clubs wanting him, so what, I couldn't care less, as PNG said they have infinite resources and mickey mouse could win the league with them.

Big, well run clubs don't appoint mickey mouse managers.

I've noticed how some people get hold of the names of some unproven nobodies (whether it be players or managers) and then become somewhat fixated on the fact they are the best thing since sliced bread, remember people going nuts over Isaksson and he proved rubbish, howabout we let someone prove themselves and have some success before we start to think they're a gift from the gods, remember Moyes, he was flavour of the day once upon the time and then employed by Man U, we all know what happened next.

I love you absoutlist logic. Because some people were wrong about some managers/players in the past that means I'm wrong here.

As for the football, Dortmund played amazing football before he arrived under Kloppp (much like Liverpool do) so let's not go overboard, Klopp built Dortmund, getting them to CL finals and challenging Bayern, Tuchel just took over an already well established club with top players.

He took over a club in crisis that was at one point on the verge of getting relegated by Klopp and where the players were literally having to go and publicly apologise to the fans to calm them down.

He turned around that mess in the space of a year.

Again no, Dortmund have been a top side over the years, they had a dip then Klopp brought them back into the limelight, player wise they've had Germany's 2ns best team for years, not coming 2nd is a bad season.

I'll further add that this doesn't counter the point I made to Blink.

Yes Dortmund are the second biggest team in Germany (Schalke the third) but that doesn't mean the gap in terms of resources between them and Bayern isn't enormous!! Their best player kept getting stolen by Bayern for several years in a row against their will (Lewandowski, Gotze, Hummels etc) - that simply doesn't happen here because there's more equality. It's rare to see Chelsea/Utd forced to lose their best player to City!

Stop being dense.

Moreover the top managers all build teams who can defend as well as attack, not interested in getting a manager who is defensively naive because you'll never win anything of note with a dodgy defence, over a decade of that should be conclusive proof, Guardiola etc build teams with good defences, that's one of the reasons they win stuff, when the attack doesn't play well they can still grind out results.

lol Pep's not a particularly great defensive manager. He gets around it by spending big on competent defenders (Laporte, Mendy, Walker etc).

Whether you rate Enrique or not and I'm not a big fan, he won the treble including the CL which is a much better achievement than anything Tuchel has done, so right now Enrique is certainly better, Tuchel hasn't proved anything right now.

Did you see the Barca team that he had? Neymar, Messi, Suarez, Rakitic, Iniesta ....... that's far better than anything that Tuchel had to work with. The guy had probably the best front three in the past decade. It's not a fair comparison of managerial abilities.

The fact that he failed in his second season despite the abundance of riches he had isn't a good reflection for him.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

I know I'm being a bit glib but is it Wenger Out based on this thread? I'm confused.

[Cripps]

I've just caught up with 5 pages of debates, arguments and insults.

Goonersweb is well and truly back. And all because of me

When are they building a statue?

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Allegri also won the league with Milan besides Juve and has taken Juve to the CL final twice. His record in Europe shows that he's not just a manager that's dominant in a one sided league. Also, Serie A has more potential for upsets compared to the Bundesliga. I'd argue Juve's resurgence as a force in Europe comes back to smart managerial appointments with Conte and Allegeri. Inter were dominating for ages until Jose left and Allegeri won it with Milan.

If I had said a massive club like Barca or Bayern were interested in Allegeri as if that somehow validates why I think we should go for him, that would be having it both ways. Tuchel has a very short record with Dortmund. It's not enough for me to know where he's flavour of the month or the real deal. If Brendan Rodgers were linked with Bayern or PSG, would that suddenly make him a better manager?

Doesn't the fact that he fell out so quickly with staff and players concern you? You still haven't answered that one. For Dortmund to let him go so quickly says a lot. Again, not saying he is shit, just saying it's a big risk.

I'd argue that Juve's successes has been due to their fantastic transfer policy - getting in Pogba for free and selling him for 89 million, using that money to buy Higuain, getting in the likes of Khedira & Matuidi cheaply etc .... but I don't really want to get into a protracted debate about that. Allegri is a fantastic manager and unlike Zim I don't feel the need to diss him because I also like someone else (Tuchel).

That's a farfetched hypothetical though because there's no way that Brendan Rodgers would be credibly linked to Barca or PSG. If he was then I'd be prepared to rethink my opinion of him.

A bit but I don't think it's a major concern, at least not to the extent of passing over him if he's available. Bear in mind one of the reasons he fell out with the Dortmund management team is because they sold THREE of his best players despite getting assurances that they wouldn't - this is less likely to happen to us as we're much richer than Dortmund and less susceptible to that these days.

Furthermore as we're all know he'll get a much more freedom here to do what he wants because of our absentee owner & chairman, plus I do think he's probably learnt some lessons from his time at Dortmund. At any rate, if we get three or four excellent seasons out of him before it goes tits up then I'd be happy - no one's going to do a Wenger/Ferguson anymore.

I've heard Tuchel has ruled out a move to Arseanl anyway. If the move were still on, for me, he'd fit in to the 2nd tier of managers we've been linked with.

3rd Teir
Henry
Arteta

2nd Teir
Brendan Rodgers
Joachim Low
Tuchel

1st
Jardim
Luis Enrique
Ancelotti
Allegri


3rd tier are those taking on their first job and that's a risk I'd want to avoid.

2nd tier - managers with serious question marks against their record. Rodgers is the lowest of the 2nd tier for obvious reasons. He has a league title and cups with Celtic but would have to do a lot better in Europe to take him seriously. Low has no recent club experience despite being a WC winner. Managing a club team is a different beast. I'd rate Tuchel over him just because I think Low would have a steep learning curve.

1st teir

League winners. Jardim is the less accomplished but what he has done with Monaco is remarkable. Was close to ranking him ahead of Luis Enrique because Barca are Barca... but you get the idea. Simeone would be in this bracket but we have no chance of getting him.

Why do you rate Ancelotti so highly? His league performances in competitive leagues is almost as bad as Wenger's. And by all accounts his management style is exactly like Wenger's .... act the father figure, be the guy who puts an arms around the shoulder and let the players work it out on the pitch, i.e. hands off. The last thing we need right now.


Tier 0 - Simeone

Tier 1 - Tuchel, Jardim, Allegri

Tier 2 - Luis Enrique, Hasenhüttl, Sarri, Conte, Tedesco, Low

Tier 3 - Henry, Arteta, Vieira (not the poster)

[McNamara That Ghost...]

I've just caught up with 5 pages of debates, arguments and insults.

Goonersweb is well and truly back. And all because of me

When are they building a statue?

[Letters]

Dammit!

I was just looking for something to post and had a similar idea. By the time I found something you'd posted this.

[Power n Glory]

I'd argue that Juve's successes has been due to their fantastic transfer policy - getting in Pogba for free and selling him for 89 million, using that money to buy Higuain, getting in the likes of Khedira & Matuidi cheaply etc .... but I don't really want to get into a protracted debate about that. Allegri is a fantastic manager and unlike Zim I don't feel the need to diss him because I also like someone else (Tuchel).

That's a farfetched hypothetical though because there's no way that Brendan Rodgers would be credibly linked to Barca or PSG. If he was then I'd be prepared to rethink my opinion of him.

A bit but I don't think it's a major concern, at least not to the extent of passing over him if he's available. Bear in mind one of the reasons he fell out with the Dortmund management team is because they sold THREE of his best players despite getting assurances that they wouldn't - this is less likely to happen to us as we're much richer than Dortmund and less susceptible to that these days.

Furthermore as we're all know he'll get a much more freedom here to do what he wants because of our absentee owner & chairman, plus I do think he's probably learnt some lessons from his time at Dortmund. At any rate, if we get three or four excellent seasons out of him before it goes tits up then I'd be happy - no one's going to do a Wenger/Ferguson anymore.



Why do you rate Ancelotti so highly? His league performances in competitive leagues is almost as bad as Wenger's. And by all accounts his management style is exactly like Wenger's .... act the father figure, be the guy who puts an arms around the shoulder and let the players work it out on the pitch, i.e. hands off. The last thing we need right now.


Tier 0 - Simeone

Tier 1 - Tuchel, Jardim, Allegri

Tier 2 - Luis Enrique, Hasenhüttl, Sarri, Conte, Tedesco, Low

Tier 3 - Henry, Arteta, Vieira (not the poster)

How do you have Tuchel ahead of Conte and Luis Enrique? You're really going hard for someone with two seasons under his belt at Dortmund and has yet to win a title. If he has potential, he still has to actually do and not live off 'would could have been' stories. He's not coming here but we'll soon see what he's all about.

[Cripps]

[Cripps]

How do you have Tuchel ahead of Conte and Luis Enrique? You're really going hard for someone with two seasons under his belt at Dortmund and has yet to win a title. If he has potential, he still has to actually do and not live off 'would could have been' stories. He's not coming here but we'll soon see what he's all about.

Tbf Enrique was managing the best team in the world

Tuchel with his style of football would have probably won similar amount of trophies if he was managing Barca

Sometime it's about circumstance too