Wenger's future, possible extension and possible... departure?

[The Emirates Gallactico]

How do you have Tuchel ahead of Conte and Luis Enrique? You're really going hard for someone with two seasons under his belt at Dortmund and has yet to win a title. If he has potential, he still has to actually do and not live off 'would could have been' stories. He's not coming here but we'll soon see what he's all about.

I'm slightly worried that Conte's burned out tbh. He's seemed to have struggled once teams started figuring out how to play against his three at the back system. Usually he'd come up with something else but he's seemed to have struggled this year motivating himself - the poisonous nature of the Chelsea job doesn't help things mind you.

And like Cripps says, Tuchel would have won the treble with that Barca team. He'd probably have won back to back trebles - it was a ridiculous team.


Yes I rate him very highly and his style is the most suited for our club. Most people I know who watch German football a lot also do as well.

[Power n Glory]

Tbf Enrique was managing the best team in the world

Tuchel with his style of football would have probably won similar amount of trophies if he was managing Barca

Sometime it's about circumstance too

Living in the hypothetical. Until he does it, you can't rank a guy with one domestic trophy under his belt along side a treble winner.

[Power n Glory]

I'm slightly worried that Conte's burned out tbh. He's seemed to have struggled once teams started figuring out how to play against his three at the back system. Usually he'd come up with something else but he's seemed to have struggled this year motivating himself - the poisonous nature of the Chelsea job doesn't help things mind you.

And like Cripps says, Tuchel would have won the treble with that Barca team. He'd probably have won back to back trebles - it was a ridiculous team.


Yes I rate him very highly and his style is the most suited for our club. Most people I know who watch German football a lot also do as well.

Tuchel couldn't beat Liverpool in the Uefa Cup! Calm down.

[Cripps]

Living in the hypothetical. Until he does it, you can't rank a guy with one domestic trophy under his belt along side a treble winner.

You see my point though

Context does come into debates especially in football. It's not black and white

[Power n Glory]

You see my point though

Context does come into debates especially in football. It's not black and white

I get what you're saying about the Barca machine, but not many win the treble. That's a feat I even forget but have to acknowledge. Not many are able to pull it off. Real Madrid have never done it despite the teams and coaches they've had. Rijkaard couldn't do it with Barca. Coaches that came after Pep haven't been able to pull it off. It's just been Luis Enrique so far. It's a super powerful team but not many deliver on what's expected when you have that sort of expectation on you.

[Cripps]

I get what you're saying about the Barca machine, but not many win the treble. That's a feat I even forget but have to acknowledge. Not many are able to pull it off. Real Madrid have never done it despite the teams and coaches they've had. Rijkaard couldn't do it with Barca. Coaches that came after Pep haven't been able to pull it off. It's just been Luis Enrique so far. It's a super powerful team but not many deliver on what's expected when you have that sort of expectation on you.

The argument against Tuchel is mainly that he's overrated because he's won nothing of note. All I'm saying is that it's because he was managing Dortmund and if he had been manager of Barca, he would more than likely have won at least the domestic title. Yes it's hypothetical but all I'm pointing out is that context can be applied to think logically in this sort of situation

Also you say Tuchel was a destabilising manager but Enrique fell out with key Barca stars too, notably Messi, who apparently wanted him gone. So you can't hold that against Tuchel but let it go for Enrique

[Özim]

Stop being such a ridiculous man. It was literally a matter of public record the bad blood between Tuchel and the management team, even to the extent where Tuchel banned Sven from the training ground and apparently didn't even speak to him for almost a year. Why do you keep ignoring this just to push your head cannon?

Read Zorc & Watzke's comments on his dismissal,

"worn ourselves out during this time in our dealings with the coaching team."

"It's about basic values such as trust, respect, teamwork and communication skills, about authority and identity. It's about reliability and loyalty.

"Unfortunately, we couldn't see a basis for continued work together built on trust with a successful outlook in the current personnel constellation."


The breakdown in relationship made his position untenable.

And Klopp nearly got the same team relegated the season before so yeah that's not true either. Unlike Tuchel, Klopp struggled to cope with Dortmund's best players being poached season after season.

He got the same points tally in the first season that a lot of teams that win the Bundesliga (like Klopp's Dortmund team) get. What's so difficult to understand & appreciate about that?

Bayern being unbelievable for a few seasons doesn't change that fact.

Klopp had years of success and one bad season, but overall Klopp did a great job, he brought Dortmund back to the top, you can't look at one season and ignore all his other seasons. Klopp won 2 titles and got them to a CL final, he also made them one of the best teams in Europe and great to watch.

As for Tuchel, in my eyes he struggled, as I said 3rd in the league, knocked out of CL and knocked out of the Europa, that's struggling in my book, regardless of why he was sacked, the fact is he lost his job, had he been winning stuff it would have been different, the guy is entirely unproven, the Dortmund side he inherited had one bad season but were a top top side, make no mistake, moreover it's not a good sign when a guy falls out with everyone at a club.

Big, well run clubs don't appoint mickey mouse managers.

So far they haven't appointed him, so even if that's true he'snever had a job at one of those clubs.

I love you absoutlist logic. Because some people were wrong about some managers/players in the past that means I'm wrong here.

No it doesn't but this belief in a guy who hasn't achieved just because a few people think he's good (like they did with Moyes and many others before) is equally misplaced, when he's won something of note then you might have a point, right now it's mere hype.

He took over a club in crisis that was at one point on the verge of getting relegated by Klopp and where the players were literally having to go and publicly apologise to the fans to calm them down.

He turned around that mess in the space of a year.

That's sensationalist nonsense sorry, this was a club with the 2nd best group of players in the country that had one off season (much like teams in England have had), plus they ended 7th which is nowhere near relegation anyway

Yes Dortmund are the second biggest team in Germany (Schalke the third) but that doesn't mean the gap in terms of resources between them and Bayern isn't enormous!! Their best player kept getting stolen by Bayern for several years in a row against their will (Lewandowski, Gotze, Hummels etc) - that simply doesn't happen here because there's more equality. It's rare to see Chelsea/Utd forced to lose their best player to City!

Stop being dense.

I never said it wasn't I said Dortmund were the 2nd biggest club, Klopp certainly managed to win 2 bundesligue at a time when Bayern were very strong, they got to the CL final in the 2nd year he won it and won it the following year which is better than they've done since, so your point about Bayern is ridiculous, they were if anything stronger then as proved by their CL performances.

lol Pep's not a particularly great defensive manager. He gets around it by spending big on competent defenders (Laporte, Mendy, Walker etc).

So he buys good defenders and his team defend well but you laugh at my point about being able to defend, doesn't matter how you achieve it as long as your team can defend, Tuchels teams can't end of.

Did you see the Barca team that he had? Neymar, Messi, Suarez, Rakitic, Iniesta ....... that's far better than anything that Tuchel had to work with. The guy had probably the best front three in the past decade. It's not a fair comparison of managerial abilities.

The fact that he failed in his second season despite the abundance of riches he had isn't a good reflection for him.

He still won the CL which is a very hard competition to win and has the other big guns like Real and achieved the treble, it's easy to dismiss but at the end of the day Real are quite some competition, that's why they've won the CL so many times in recent years and doing the treble is very rare as well.

[Özim]

Tuchel couldn't beat Liverpool in the Uefa Cup! Calm down.

Spot on, it was ashocking capitulation and showed his tactical naivety IMO, that game was done and dusted and somehow they lost the tie, what's worse is that Liverpool weren't even all that great they ended up 8th in the league, Klopp (a guy who had proven himself at Dortmund) totally outsmarted Tuchel (a guy who IMO benefited from what Klopp had built greatly).

[Power n Glory]

The argument against Tuchel is mainly that he's overrated because he's won nothing of note. All I'm saying is that it's because he was managing Dortmund and if he had been manager of Barca, he would more than likely have won at least the domestic title. Yes it's hypothetical but all I'm pointing out is that context can be applied to think logically in this sort of situation

Also you say Tuchel was a destabilising manager but Enrique fell out with key Barca stars too, notably Messi, who apparently wanted him gone. So you can't hold that against Tuchel but let it go for Enrique

Enrique had won La Liga twice and done the Treble before getting sacked. Conte has won multiple titles with Juve and won a title with Chelsea. He's managed Italy! Yet you'd rank Tuchel as a teir one manager with only a domestic cup to his name above both of them?

With that sort of logical thinking, you could rank Brendan Rodgers and Arsene Wenger as top teir managers.

Zim was right to point out that fans on here were pulling the same hypothetical calculations for David Moyes until he finally landed a top job at Man Utd and was totally exposed. We all used to think the same about Wenger with the 'what could have been' scenarios if he had more money! It's only after seeing a consistent pattern of CL run failures and seeing that Wenger has a serious mental block in Europe that we realised that Wenger has a problem and it's not the personnel.

After two seasons with Dortmund, it is too short of a window to rank Tuchel with the guys that have actually won league titles and stronger records in Europe. Let's just wait and see what he does.

[selassie]

I'd argue that Juve's successes has been due to their fantastic transfer policy - getting in Pogba for free and selling him for 89 million, using that money to buy Higuain, getting in the likes of Khedira & Matuidi cheaply etc .... but I don't really want to get into a protracted debate about that. Allegri is a fantastic manager and unlike Zim I don't feel the need to diss him because I also like someone else (Tuchel).

That's a farfetched hypothetical though because there's no way that Brendan Rodgers would be credibly linked to Barca or PSG. If he was then I'd be prepared to rethink my opinion of him.

A bit but I don't think it's a major concern, at least not to the extent of passing over him if he's available. Bear in mind one of the reasons he fell out with the Dortmund management team is because they sold THREE of his best players despite getting assurances that they wouldn't - this is less likely to happen to us as we're much richer than Dortmund and less susceptible to that these days.

Furthermore as we're all know he'll get a much more freedom here to do what he wants because of our absentee owner & chairman, plus I do think he's probably learnt some lessons from his time at Dortmund. At any rate, if we get three or four excellent seasons out of him before it goes tits up then I'd be happy - no one's going to do a Wenger/Ferguson anymore.



Why do you rate Ancelotti so highly? His league performances in competitive leagues is almost as bad as Wenger's. And by all accounts his management style is exactly like Wenger's .... act the father figure, be the guy who puts an arms around the shoulder and let the players work it out on the pitch, i.e. hands off. The last thing we need right now.


Tier 0 - Simeone

Tier 1 - Tuchel, Jardim, Allegri

Tier 2 - Luis Enrique, Hasenhüttl, Sarri, Conte, Tedesco, Low

Tier 3 - Henry, Arteta, Vieira (not the poster)

TEG, there is absolutely no way Tuchel is on the same level as Jardim and Allegri. What are you basing this on?

Also you are rating Tuchel above Conte?!!!