Where has Wenger gone wrong?

[Globalgunner]

This doesn’t really warrant much discussion

It’s a very rare thing a manager can last a long time at a club and be consistently successful. Ferguson was an outlier and a lot of his success was invested in knowing what he didn’t know as well as what he did know, and deferring those things to other people

In many respects I think Wenger used to be the same, he knew he wasn’t a tactical genius, he knew defensive coaching wasn’t his strong suit. He knew he wasn’t a great vociferous leader....so to a degree he delegates to those who were. Whenever there was shouting in the dressing room it was done by Pat Rice or Tony Adams. Or the players were themselves able to lead between each other. It is claimed that Patrick Vieira as captain used to tell Sol Campbell to shout at him and give him both barrels when the defence wasn’t getting enough protection.

And whilst I’m not singling out Fabregas, he was really where it started to go wrong. More because Wenger chased that type of technically gifted passer at the expense of everything else, because he wanted to emulate the Barcelona style.

And that’s why for years we had teams that were good on the ball but couldn’t deal with physical opponents

And now there’s just nothing, no philosophy no nothing. We have a duct taped patchwork team without any style or substance or character.

Nothing about Wengers current state of megalomania shows that he knows anything of the sort. His delusion is in thinking the success of the invincibles was mainly down to him. He thinks he taught Bergkamp how to pick a pass from midfield. How Henry and Pires could dovetail between each other. How Vieira instinctively knew when to stay and when to march imperiously forward to join the attack. How Keown, Campbell and Adams knew to kill an attack when it was still building up outside the box rather than start panicking when the striker was 3 yards from goal.

These things were not taught by him. The players knew what to do and did it from a decade of experience. Adams said they used to laugh at Wengers pep talks. Same with his lackadaisical back room staff. Boro Primorac telling Adams how to defend?. His great mistake is and always was ego. He needs the adulation, even from just looking in a mirror. Once that squad which he couldnt browbeat was disbanded. He bought a new set of players, subject to his authority. players who wouldnt question his methods. Maybe because they too bought into the mystic illusion of Wenger the great. They soon found however that his methods didnt work. If you followed them you were bound to fail...and fail they did. the good ones left and Wenger built again...and again..and again. Still Wenger believes.

Shit manager. Always was.

[Niall_Quinn]

Do we really need another thread on this? It's been discussed hundreds of times.

It's a discussion forum. And Arsenal fans are all at different stages of the relationship with Wenger. So these things might, legitimately, come up a million times.

As for me, I'm not as keen on Wenger as I used to be.

[Niall_Quinn]

This doesn’t really warrant much discussion

It’s a very rare thing a manager can last a long time at a club and be consistently successful. Ferguson was an outlier and a lot of his success was invested in knowing what he didn’t know as well as what he did know, and deferring those things to other people

In many respects I think Wenger used to be the same, he knew he wasn’t a tactical genius, he knew defensive coaching wasn’t his strong suit. He knew he wasn’t a great vociferous leader....so to a degree he delegates to those who were. Whenever there was shouting in the dressing room it was done by Pat Rice or Tony Adams. Or the players were themselves able to lead between each other. It is claimed that Patrick Vieira as captain used to tell Sol Campbell to shout at him and give him both barrels when the defence wasn’t getting enough protection.

And whilst I’m not singling out Fabregas, he was really where it started to go wrong. More because Wenger chased that type of technically gifted passer at the expense of everything else, because he wanted to emulate the Barcelona style.

And that’s why for years we had teams that were good on the ball but couldn’t deal with physical opponents

And now there’s just nothing, no philosophy no nothing. We have a duct taped patchwork team without any style or substance or character.

I think that's about it. When Fabregas was elevated to de facto leader of the team our game went to shit. Relatively speaking. We could still play some decent football at that point. And Fabregas was a good player, with Santi coming after him. Wenger relied heavily on these guys to pull off his utterly fucked up vision of what the PL should be, rather than what it actually is.

[Power n Glory]

Where things went wrong for Wenger.... the Premier League got better. The games quicker, teams are fitter, player quality has gone up, coaching levels have home up and now we have managers in the league with experience of winning league titles and European trophies with other European teams. We moved over to project youth and started looking for a different style of player, profile wise, but we did better in Europe with those kids that we ever could with the Invincible squad.

If you look at our CL record when we had Henry and Co, it was appalling. I can't defend it. They were never mentally or tactically prepared and we'd always struggle to break teams down in the same way we struggle now.

Too stubborn to adapt and definitely the wrong sort of manager to coach kids in this era.

[Cripps]

David Dein left.

[Niall_Quinn]

Where things went wrong for Wenger.... the Premier League got better. The games quicker, teams are fitter, player quality has gone up, coaching levels have home up and now we have managers in the league with experience of winning league titles and European trophies with other European teams. We moved over to project youth and started looking for a different style of player, profile wise, but we did better in Europe with those kids that we ever could with the Invincible squad.

If you look at our CL record when we had Henry and Co, it was appalling. I can't defend it. They were never mentally or tactically prepared and we'd always struggle to break teams down in the same way we struggle now.

Too stubborn to adapt and definitely the wrong sort of manager to coach kids in this era.

So, like a con man, he found an angle and milked it until the edge died away and everyone was in on the game? Then he realised he had no other talents. So he turned his attention to the fans, found they had this unshakable loyalty, and exploited that for all he was worth?

A scumbag, in other words? A (not so) cheap, lousy, charlatan hustler?

[Power n Glory]

So, like a con man, he found an angle and milked it until the edge died away and everyone was in on the game? Then he realised he had no other talents. So he turned his attention to the fans, found they had this unshakable loyalty, and exploited that for all he was worth?

A scumbag, in other words? A (not so) cheap, lousy, charlatan hustler?

That's the real problem here. Not being up to the task is one thing, every explanation for why he can't deliver the results he used to has some truth in it. But that's not where it has gone horribly wrong for him. The talking point should be around how he his turning the fans off from football and how we've lost our passion for the club and game. I fear there will be a strong divide between Arsenal fans for years to come and that's if they're still following the game. That's not a legacy to be proud of.

I once said that once he's gone we'll remember him more fondly but I don't think that way anymore. The funk we have been in has gone on for too long and the sheer arrogance on display and his selfish behaviour will be a hard memory to shake. I've seen players lose their legendary status and service to the club forgotten by fans for a lot less.

[HCZ]

Interesting how in all the responses to this question I’ve read it all pretty much seems like everyone has found slightly different way of saying the same thing

[HCZ]

That's the real problem here. Not being up to the task is one thing, every explanation for why he can't deliver the results he used to has some truth in it. But that's not where it has gone horribly wrong for him. The talking point should be around how he his turning the fans off from football and how we've lost our passion for the club and game. I fear there will be a strong divide between Arsenal fans for years to come and that's if they're still following the game. That's not a legacy to be proud of.

I once said that once he's gone we'll remember him more fondly but I don't think that way anymore. The funk we have been in has gone on for too long and the sheer arrogance on display and his selfish behaviour will be a hard memory to shake. I've seen players lose their legendary status and service to the club forgotten by fans for a lot less.

I guess it depends how long we are talking

In the immediate future, I think it will be difficult for many of us to think of him too fondly

And at best even in the fullness of time it will be once great manager stayed with us far too long

If the writing is on the wall for him, and he jumps before he’s pushed he will probably get his soapy tit wank farewell.

[Marc Overmars]

That's the real problem here. Not being up to the task is one thing, every explanation for why he can't deliver the results he used to has some truth in it. But that's not where it has gone horribly wrong for him. The talking point should be around how he his turning the fans off from football and how we've lost our passion for the club and game. I fear there will be a strong divide between Arsenal fans for years to come and that's if they're still following the game. That's not a legacy to be proud of.

I once said that once he's gone we'll remember him more fondly but I don't think that way anymore. The funk we have been in has gone on for too long and the sheer arrogance on display and his selfish behaviour will be a hard memory to shake. I've seen players lose their legendary status and service to the club forgotten by fans for a lot less.

Unfortuantley now there have been arguably more years of disharmony and frustration as there have been success. His legacy now includes a deeply mind fucked and divided fanbase. What you alluded to about the divided fanbase will rumble on after he’s gone. If the next manager were to get off to a poor start or struggle at any point, you just know those fans who still hold a candle for Wenger will cause a problem and the cycle will repeat itself, only this time with the in and out roles will be reversed.