The next manager..

[Master Splinter]

Experience .

Certainly worked for Mourinho today.

[I am invisible]

Proving his credentials with another loss.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Experience .

Certainly worked for Mourinho today.

Yup, you just confirmed what Mourinho said in a nutshell.

Football is being held hostage by dummies in both high and low places.

[fakeyank]

Jose is a cunt. I wouldnt agree with that guy if he said 1+1=2.

Fuck him, and I hope he gets herpes.

[Letters]

Experience .

Certainly worked for Mourinho today.

Using one off results to “prove” a point

[Master Splinter]

Jose is a cunt. I wouldnt agree with that guy if he said 1+1=2.

Fuck him, and I hope he gets herpes.

Pretty much.

Not forgetting the fact that he's basically crying about this because he'll never be considered for a top job again. Arsenal, Bayern, Real Madrid and Juventus all recently had vacancies but no sensible club would go near him.

Also to clarify, no-one is saying experience is bad. But neither does it mean an experienced coach is more suitable for a certain job. Mourinho, Ancelotti, Emery, Ranieri and a whole host of the British Old Boys Club have flopped unceremoniously recently. Similarly, younger coaches like Kovac, Silva or even Tuchel aren't living up to their earlier promise.

In the end, it comes down to who is the best fit for a club at that time. Why should big name managers who have been on the decline be an automatic choice over a potentially innovative younger coach?

The experienced manager experiment at Arsenal was a failure. Maybe the Arteta one will be too. At least there's the possibility of new ideas with Arteta, whereas with any of the tried and tested coaches you could almost plot the journey already, as many correctly did with Emery. If it goes wrong again, then so be it and move on. It's only football.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Also to clarify, no-one is saying experience is bad. But neither does it mean an experienced coach is more suitable for a certain job. Mourinho, Ancelotti, Emery, Ranieri and a whole host of the British Old Boys Club have flopped unceremoniously recently. Similarly, younger coaches like Kovac, Silva or even Tuchel aren't living up to their earlier promise.

In the end, it comes down to who is the best fit for a club at that time. Why should big name managers who have been on the decline be an automatic choice over a potentially innovative younger coach?

The experienced manager experiment at Arsenal was a failure. Maybe the Arteta one will be too. At least there's the possibility of new ideas with Arteta, whereas with any of the tried and tested coaches you could almost plot the journey already, as many correctly did with Emery. If it goes wrong again, then so be it and move on. It's only football.

Fair enough, definitely a more interesting line of thought than stating experience must be crap because Mourinho says it isn't.

Anyway, I do agree with you that the most important thing in choosing a manager is choosing the best fit at that particular point in time; we're definitely rebuilding now and trying to stay afloat, so the question is, are new ideas a better choice than a safer pair of hands who has probably been through the cycle before?

So I decided to look for a big club who've given rookie ex-player managers the chance to lose their virginity and surprise surprise, the comparison I'd made with us and Meeelan came up again.

So after Ancelotti left in 2010 to the chavs, Milan straight away made their legend Leonardo the coach with zero experience. He didn't do to badly, ended up finishing 3rd and entertained the press with some crazy formations. Despite this he was sacked at the end of the season and made way for a more unknown guy called Allegri who really only had "small club" experience. Leonardo coached Inter Milan the next season, failed their and never recovered to coach again.

The "small club" experienced Allegri would win the league in his first season in charge with mainly Leonardo's team. He would later rebuild the team in the next 2 seasons and always finish not lower than a CL spot. You know his history after AC Milan so I dont' need to go there.

Allegri is sacked halfway through his 4th season after a poor run of form and Milan decide to try that legendary player/manager approach again instead of sticking with him. Clarence Seedorf comes in with zero experience, does relatively well till the end of the season, but just like Leonardo, fails again in politics and is sacked. He's coached a few teams since then and has not made any mark.

His replacement is another legendary player manager Inzaghi. Unlike Leo and Seedorf, he's actually coached the B-team so is a bit more "experienced". He gets a full season, they play poorly and finish 10th. He gets the sack obviously.

Milan continue to hire younger coaches with less experience but never pure Rookies again. Ancelotti remains their most successful coach in recent years, by trophies and more importantly win percentage and he was their longest serving manager- so the "new ideas" should have at least managed to triumph over that statistically.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...Milan_managers

If this Arteta argument is so compelling, there should be a recent example that proves or even supports that it can or does work, but I'm yet to come across it. All I see are dozens of examples of experience, even if it is "small club" experience, being vital to managers whose remit was to turn around the fortunes of struggling top clubs (i.e. Fergie, AW, Simeone, Rodgers, Klopp, Pooch, Allegri, Mancini, Conte etc).

[IBK]

I'm pretty sure Auba would have wanted out whoever we'd hired - it being Arteta will make it all sound a bit more reasonable to the fans, but the bottom line is he's 30, going on 31, and just doesn't have time to stick around and see how another rebuild plays out.

Good luck to him, if he does go - he may not be able to stick around for the rebuild, but he could do us one last, massive service if he helps fund it.

As important for me is that Arteta's most important immediate job is to reunite the dressing room and get them playing together in a common cause. If Auba wants out, then he needs to go as this is contrary to what we need. The bottom line is that disunity and disharmony, and players playing for themselves and not the team has been the main reason why this season has been a shitshow so far. Addressing this has to be our new manager's priority, and if it takes players leaving in January and a mid table finish to achieve this, so be it.

[I am invisible]

As important for me is that Arteta's most important immediate job is to reunite the dressing room and get them playing together in a common cause. If Auba wants out, then he needs to go as this is contrary to what we need. The bottom line is that disunity and disharmony, and players playing for themselves and not the team has been the main reason why this season has been a shitshow so far. Addressing this has to be our new manager's priority, and if it takes players leaving in January and a mid table finish to achieve this, so be it.

Yeah, the club left it way too long to make the call on Emery - he was a dead man walking for at least a couple of months before he went, and the moment the players sussed that out he lost any and all authority he might have had over that dressing room.

The most important thing the club can do over the next 6 months is make it abundantly clear that they’ll back Arteta over any player, even if that means a big casualty or two. No matter how messy it might get, the players need to know that he’s gonna be here for a while, and that the threat of not playing unless you fall in line is very real. Can’t have the players running the club.

[fakeyank]

Fair enough, definitely a more interesting line of thought than stating experience must be crap because Mourinho says it isn't.

Anyway, I do agree with you that the most important thing in choosing a manager is choosing the best fit at that particular point in time; we're definitely rebuilding now and trying to stay afloat, so the question is, are new ideas a better choice than a safer pair of hands who has probably been through the cycle before?

So I decided to look for a big club who've given rookie ex-player managers the chance to lose their virginity and surprise surprise, the comparison I'd made with us and Meeelan came up again.

So after Ancelotti left in 2010 to the chavs, Milan straight away made their legend Leonardo the coach with zero experience. He didn't do to badly, ended up finishing 3rd and entertained the press with some crazy formations. Despite this he was sacked at the end of the season and made way for a more unknown guy called Allegri who really only had "small club" experience. Leonardo coached Inter Milan the next season, failed their and never recovered to coach again.

The "small club" experienced Allegri would win the league in his first season in charge with mainly Leonardo's team. He would later rebuild the team in the next 2 seasons and always finish not lower than a CL spot. You know his history after AC Milan so I dont' need to go there.

Allegri is sacked halfway through his 4th season after a poor run of form and Milan decide to try that legendary player/manager approach again instead of sticking with him. Clarence Seedorf comes in with zero experience, does relatively well till the end of the season, but just like Leonardo, fails again in politics and is sacked. He's coached a few teams since then and has not made any mark.

His replacement is another legendary player manager Inzaghi. Unlike Leo and Seedorf, he's actually coached the B-team so is a bit more "experienced". He gets a full season, they play poorly and finish 10th. He gets the sack obviously.

Milan continue to hire younger coaches with less experience but never pure Rookies again. Ancelotti remains their most successful coach in recent years, by trophies and more importantly win percentage and he was their longest serving manager- so the "new ideas" should have at least managed to triumph over that statistically.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...Milan_managers

If this Arteta argument is so compelling, there should be a recent example that proves or even supports that it can or does work, but I'm yet to come across it. All I see are dozens of examples of experience, even if it is "small club" experience, being vital to managers whose remit was to turn around the fortunes of struggling top clubs (i.e. Fergie, AW, Simeone, Rodgers, Klopp, Pooch, Allegri, Mancini, Conte etc).

Based on that analysis, Arteta is getting his 'small club' experience with us before he wins the treble in La Liga with Madrid or Barcelona.