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Thread: Dissecting Emery's Arsenal

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coney View Post
    Emery needs to change the style of play that the players are used to. He also needs to learn the PL game and how his ideas fit into it - he will also need to adapt his initial ideas in the light of experience. Some things will work, some won't. I am expecting a few iffy games here and there.

    Three games is not enough to judge him on. He tried pressing with the fullbacks and got found out. If he learns from that and changes some of the tactics to cover it, that is perfectly fine and a good sign.

    I think anyone saying he is no good at this stage is being very premature. He might be crap he might be very clever and just what we need. But 2 games against established top sides and one trying out a tactic with the fullbacks is not enough to judge him on.

    Some impatient people might expect a quick improvement over Wenger (think about that - look at how high we were under Wenger even in his worst years and be grateful) but nothing is going to happen overnight.

    I would rather we built up over a season and then bought some more players where needed than have a great couple of months of superficial success followed by a crash and burn.

    I think we need to wait till later in the year - beginning of December before we start to make serious judgements.
    I kind of agree with a lot of what you say. I know I definitely agree that 3 games isn't enough to say if a manager is world class or not.

    However I think my problem is I really expected to see us being something "different" this season; I mean that "difference" could either make us better or worse; but we would be different and everyone would be able to see it and point to the "difference". You can see how different Sarri's Chelsea look from what we saw last year already.

    But besides the new substitution regime it all seems pretty much the same here. Our attacking style remains the same and our defending, even with the pressing and playing two deep lying midfielders, remains the same. Do we say it's the personnel? Can our players not be coached to play in a different way? Or do we need to do a Pep and change 80% of them to suit the coach?

    Let me go straight to what I think. I believe Emery is just making it up as he goes along i.e. he's not prepared. Their isn't a style or a vision he has for this team yet and thats why it seems not much has changed in style and the same personel keep starting.

    Now this necessarily is not a bad thing, Pep did this with Rijkard's Barca in his first season and was quite successful- then he introduced extreme tippy tappy seasons later.

    But it is disappointing to me personally, because I got tired of our style long ago and wanted to see us different. Of the 6 halves of football we've had this season I got the most pleasure from our 2nd half performance against Chelsea where we had little possession, sat deep and looked unfamiliarly comfortable doing so. Yes Chelsea eventually scored but we looked prime for the counter and I felt we could get them back. I felt we had finally seen something different, something of Emery in that half, but then we play West Ham and its pretty much all the same.

    So I'm not writing the manager off yet, it just it seems like all he wants to do is fine tune us instead of going for the overhaul.

  2. #12
    They/Them GP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21_GOONER_SALUTE View Post
    I kind of agree with a lot of what you say. I know I definitely agree that 3 games isn't enough to say if a manager is world class or not.

    However I think my problem is I really expected to see us being something "different" this season; I mean that "difference" could either make us better or worse; but we would be different and everyone would be able to see it and point to the "difference". You can see how different Sarri's Chelsea look from what we saw last year already.

    But besides the new substitution regime it all seems pretty much the same here. Our attacking style remains the same and our defending, even with the pressing and playing two deep lying midfielders, remains the same. Do we say it's the personnel? Can our players not be coached to play in a different way? Or do we need to do a Pep and change 80% of them to suit the coach?

    Let me go straight to what I think. I believe Emery is just making it up as he goes along i.e. he's not prepared. Their isn't a style or a vision he has for this team yet and thats why it seems not much has changed in style and the same personel keep starting.

    Now this necessarily is not a bad thing, Pep did this with Rijkard's Barca in his first season and was quite successful- then he introduced extreme tippy tappy seasons later.

    But it is disappointing to me personally, because I got tired of our style long ago and wanted to see us different. Of the 6 halves of football we've had this season I got the most pleasure from our 2nd half performance against Chelsea where we had little possession, sat deep and looked unfamiliarly comfortable doing so. Yes Chelsea eventually scored but we looked prime for the counter and I felt we could get them back. I felt we had finally seen something different, something of Emery in that half, but then we play West Ham and its pretty much all the same.

    So I'm not writing the manager off yet, it just it seems like all he wants to do is fine tune us instead of going for the overhaul.
    I couldn't disagree more.

    The attack is clearly different. We're using width, particularly down the right, in a way we didn't before.

    The defence is using a press we didn't use before. Yes, it needs fine-tuning and will likely take a few transfer windows to get right, but it's clearly different to what we've seen before.
    NOTE: The location of this post has been moved and the thread title (which was previously Wenger is Leaving) has been manipulated by a notorious pro-Wenger moderator. What was previously a message that contained no profanity and made a comment on a real life event has now been manipulated by a deliberately provocative title. An old and crude propaganda and censorship technique.


  3. #13
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    Oddly enough, one of the things we were all most concerned about before the season started - lack of attacking width - has been our most consistent and effective route to goal in these opening games. Still need to get the defensive balance right, but the fullbacks are doing a great job of working around that one problem so far.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GP View Post
    I couldn't disagree more.

    The attack is clearly different. We're using width, particularly down the right, in a way we didn't before.

    The defence is using a press we didn't use before. Yes, it needs fine-tuning and will likely take a few transfer windows to get right, but it's clearly different to what we've seen before.
    Agree with that. The goals we scored and some of our best chances have come from wide play and low driven crosses into the box. We haven't looked toothless in attack and just passing for the sake of passing. Not yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coney View Post
    Emery needs to change the style of play that the players are used to. He also needs to learn the PL game and how his ideas fit into it - he will also need to adapt his initial ideas in the light of experience. Some things will work, some won't. I am expecting a few iffy games here and there.

    Three games is not enough to judge him on. He tried pressing with the fullbacks and got found out. If he learns from that and changes some of the tactics to cover it, that is perfectly fine and a good sign.

    I think anyone saying he is no good at this stage is being very premature. He might be crap he might be very clever and just what we need. But 2 games against established top sides and one trying out a tactic with the fullbacks is not enough to judge him on.

    Some impatient people might expect a quick improvement over Wenger (think about that - look at how high we were under Wenger even in his worst years and be grateful) but nothing is going to happen overnight.

    I would rather we built up over a season and then bought some more players where needed than have a great couple of months of superficial success followed by a crash and burn.

    I think we need to wait till later in the year - beginning of December before we start to make serious judgements.
    Really disagree with the first paragraph about Emery needing to adapt to the Prem. Tactically, are their no teams that successfully play out from the back? Are their no teams that use attacking fullbacks or play a highline? It's not a case of him trying to play a style of football that work in the Prem, it's more a case of the players needing to adapt to playing a different style or he has to find players that can play that way. We're not doing anything totally original with the tactics.

    For me, Emery has to experiment more with the line up but stick with the same philosophy. We're not going to get a high pressing game and control of the midfield from Xhaka, Ramsey and Ozil in the midfield. Try playing with more power and pace in the midfield. Mkhitaryan and Ozil don't cut it for me. Give Lacazette a try. Even give Welbeck a try. Give Lichsteiner some game time. I'm hoping he switches things up for the next game and experiments more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 21_GOONER_SALUTE View Post
    Wengerball continues it seems!

    Alright seriously, I'll start with the postives...

    1.No more 70 minute predictable subs.
    2. Um ...... players working harder?? (prolly the new coach effect)

    TBH, I'm not impressed with the way our new coach has started and the fact that we seem to have the same failings makes me think he just hasn't done his homework on this team or on this league properly.

    His high defensive lines , poor starting lineups and wingbacks abandoning their positions with relish makes me wonder if we will be able to compete with the big boys at all this season.

    Yes the football has been attractive, but we could have played this under AW ........ I'm just struggling to stay positve after what I've seen in these last 3 games. Someone give me something
    At this stage it seems that Emery is giving most of the starting players from last season the benefit of the doubt and the chance to maintain their starting positions, in the case for Torreira he's introducing him slowly due to his late arrival. Xhaka will be the player to lose his spot once Torreira is fit. I agree that our defense has been too open during our opening 3 fixtures but against the hammers you can understand our attacking approach i just believe he could have set things up differently. In all honesty it is early days lets judge him at the end of December. So far his trademark style of counter attack from a structured defensive formation has not been evident, he seems to be feeling for the right combinations before systemically introducing his style.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Power n Glory View Post
    Really disagree with the first paragraph about Emery needing to adapt to the Prem. Tactically, are their no teams that successfully play out from the back? Are their no teams that use attacking fullbacks or play a highline? It's not a case of him trying to play a style of football that work in the Prem, it's more a case of the players needing to adapt to playing a different style or he has to find players that can play that way. We're not doing anything totally original with the tactics.

    For me, Emery has to experiment more with the line up but stick with the same philosophy. We're not going to get a high pressing game and control of the midfield from Xhaka, Ramsey and Ozil in the midfield. Try playing with more power and pace in the midfield. Mkhitaryan and Ozil don't cut it for me. Give Lacazette a try. Even give Welbeck a try. Give Lichsteiner some game time. I'm hoping he switches things up for the next game and experiments more.
    I’m not sure I’ve seen any problems so far that can’t be solved with practice, perseverance and slight tweaks to team selection? The issue with the high-line, for example, looks to be more about So crates and Mustafi getting outnumbered on the break rather than getting badly outpaced, with forwards racing miles clear of them from the half-way line - tell the fullback on the far side to hold back and put Torreira in front of them and I’m pretty sure that problem is greatly reduced (pretty sure Torreira would have been in Anderson’s face long before he got near the CBs).

    Or maybe even consider a 3-man back line to free up the fullbacks, if the plan is to have both pushed forward with every attack?

    Personally speaking, I think we’ll be doing well if we’ve settled on a best XI and and a shape that fits by the time we play Liverpool (and even then it will be early days for that XI)...

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    Quote Originally Posted by pakgunner View Post
    At this stage it seems that Emery is giving most of the starting players from last season the benefit of the doubt and the chance to maintain their starting positions, in the case for Torreira he's introducing him slowly due to his late arrival. Xhaka will be the player to lose his spot once Torreira is fit. I agree that our defense has been too open during our opening 3 fixtures but against the hammers you can understand our attacking approach i just believe he could have set things up differently. In all honesty it is early days lets judge him at the end of December. So far his trademark style of counter attack from a structured defensive formation has not been evident, he seems to be feeling for the right combinations before systemically introducing his style.
    That point about combinations is an important one - trying out individual players may only take a couple of games, but working out those partnerships and combinations all over the pitch (and then working how each combo links with its neighbour) could take months, and maybe even all year.

    I’m not 100% convinced Xhaka will be the one to make way for Torreira, but even if he is I wouldn’t be surprised to see him back in the side within a few games, as I’m sure that one of the combinations Emery will want to see is Xhaka-Torreira. I don’t think anyone should hit the panic button if we do start seeing players we thought we were rid of coming back into the side though - it’s gonna be part of the process for a little while to come yet...

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    My fear is certainly that Emery is a long way from being done with Xhaka. On the contrary I think he prefers him.

    Can't read too much into who he hooks because we've seen he's willing to take anyone off early doors.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blink 1nce Quince 2wice View Post
    My fear is certainly that Emery is a long way from being done with Xhaka. On the contrary I think he prefers him.

    Can't read too much into who he hooks because we've seen he's willing to take anyone off early doors.
    He needs to use the (relatively) easier upcoming games to field two out of Holding , Mavropanos and Sokratis as CBs, with Torreira replacing Xhaka in front of them

    I Am Invisible suggested three at the back to allow for Nacho and Bellerin going forward, which i think is a good shout at least for away games, so how about putting all three of the above in for Cardiff away, with just one up front?
    Last edited by Mac76; 27-08-2018 at 12:55 PM.

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