Coronavirus Pandemic

[Letters]

Still no answer, I see. I refer the honourable gentleman to the post I made previously.
You're being tracked all the time anyway. What actual effect is it having on your life?
Could it have an effect? Under an oppressive regime, sure. But historically that has never happened in the UK (well, let's say in "modern times"), and personally I don't think it ever will. I could be wrong of course but people have been wringing their hands about this for decades. What freedoms has it actually eroded.

You do understand that "they" don't care where you are? They really couldn't give a shit. If you are tested positive for Covid-19 then "they" have an interest in who you might have been in close proximity with of course, and that's the data this sort of app might provide, but other than that they really don't care.

[Niall_Quinn]

Still no answer, I see. I refer the honourable gentleman to the post I made previously.
You're being tracked all the time anyway. What actual effect is it having on your life?
Could it have an effect? Under an oppressive regime, sure. But historically that has never happened in the UK (well, let's say in "modern times"), and personally I don't think it ever will. I could be wrong of course but people have been wringing their hands about this for decades. What freedoms has it actually eroded.

You do understand that "they" don't care where you are? They really couldn't give a shit. If you are tested positive for Covid-19 then "they" have an interest in who you might have been in close proximity with of course, and that's the data this sort of app might provide, but other than that they really don't care.

Ah, "they".

I get the inference. Because I don't want to be tracked by the government and have them track everyone I come into contact with, I'm a nutter?

Ok, I'm a nutter.

And how do you know "they" are tracking me already? On what do you base that assumption?

[Letters]

I'm not saying you're a nutter. I'm just thinking it .

I guess I can agree that I don't want "them" to be tracking me. I guess I just don't care if they do.
I have a device which has GPS, I'm sure "they" could use that to track me if they wanted. I just don't think they care where I am.
But if I am tested positive they might care who I've been near.

I'm sure "they" have all kinds of data about me. But I just don't see what difference it has made to my day to day life.
Could it under a certain regime? Yes, of course. I just find the idea of such a regime being in place in the UK incredibly unlikely.

So, if your thoughts in this area are more theoretical then fine. Personally I don't care, if you do then fine. Whatever.
But if you're claiming that any of this ability to monitor people has had any actual effect on your life then please elaborate.

[Letters]

Addendum. We developed an app for clocking staff in and out on exam days. At the moment it's all paper timesheets, we developed an app so staff get a badge with a QR code and the app uses that to clock the staff in and out so we know the hours they worked and that feeds into the back office system to calculate payments.
I suggested we use GPS information to verify that the device being used was at the Venue it should be.
We already know which venue the supervisor - who runs the test day and does the clocking in and out - is assigned to work at so we know where they should be. We also know where the staff are assigned. So how about we use the app to check that the device is at the right Venue and that's where the clocking in and out happened. The idea was to cut down the potential for fraud so we know that the supervisor hasn't just stayed at home, clocked a load of his mates in and out and they're all getting paid for nothing.
The privacy lot lost their shit! "You can't track people!".
The idea wasn't to track anyone, I don't care if the dude was in the whorehouse the night before. All we care about is whether they and the staff really went to the Venue where they were assigned to do work.

[Niall_Quinn]

I'm not saying you're a nutter. I'm just thinking it .

I guess I can agree that I don't want "them" to be tracking me. I guess I just don't care if they do.
I have a device which has GPS, I'm sure "they" could use that to track me if they wanted. I just don't think they care where I am.
But if I am tested positive they might care who I've been near.

I'm sure "they" have all kinds of data about me. But I just don't see what difference it has made to my day to day life.
Could it under a certain regime? Yes, of course. I just find the idea of such a regime being in place in the UK incredibly unlikely.

So, if your thoughts in this area are more theoretical then fine. Personally I don't care, if you do then fine. Whatever.
But if you're claiming that any of this ability to monitor people has had any actual effect on your life then please elaborate.

It's had a huge affect on my life. It's one of the things I do for a living. Help corporations comply with abusive privacy regulations while limiting the actual damage done. And if you think corporations and governments aren't incredibly interested in what YOU (yes YOU Letters) are doing then I can disabuse you of that fantasy. Data mapped to the individual with an ever expanding set of data points it at the heart of modern marketing and IT. And it's not for your benefit. Recent UK elections and referendums have been influenced using such data, mapped to individuals.

I'll give you a hard example. That 52% to 48% outcome you aren't so pleased about? That was big data, being used in ways you can't even imagine if you aren't familiar with the technology involved. Without big data, that result would likely have been somewhere in the region of 55% to 45% reversed, or maybe wider. Your lot didn't have data because they are fairly prehistoric by comparison.

And that's a relatively benign example, because there was no corruption involved, just methodology that allowed otherwise unrecorded individuals to be identified, analysed and targeted. None of it would have been possible without Facebook, Twitter, the electoral register, the census, all those hospital forms you filled out, your driving license, your library, your bank, your Amazon account, etc, etc.

You wanted the UK to remain in Europe, right? Big data said no. You tell me yourself, how has big data, surveillance and your willing compliance affected your life?

But there's a problem.

Half those CCTV cameras (or more) don't even work. And they are ancient technology by today's standard, most of them anyway. They can't track at the individual level unless the individual has been identified by other means. And even then, they can be defeated very easily. For each abusive tracking technology there is a counter-technology. It is actually possible to mask yourself online and avoid being identified. If you know what you are doing. We all know that ISPs and telecommunications firms have been tracking individual user behaviour for years now. Call it first generation technology.

The big problem with this first generation technology, sophisticated as it has become, is it requires circumvention measures, covert measures, small print escape clauses in contracts, and HUGE, HUGE data storage and retrieval facilities that cost vast sums of money to construct and maintain. Plus vast amounts of processing power to extract meaningful information from the unimaginably vast sea of data.

Basically, due to existing privacy concerns and the fact they couldn't erode them fast enough due to public opposition, the surveillance state has had to build its apparatus the wrong way around. It would be far better if those surveilled not only willingly handed over their data to the state, but also stored it and processed it on demand. Hello the greatest invention ever conceived in terms of privacy abuse - the smartphone! Now we're talking.

Imagine if you could create a peer to peer, distributed network with almost infinite processing power - on demand, and get somebody else to pay for it, maintain it, upgrade it and basically eat, sleep and fuck with it by their side? Well we have that now. Now we've reversed the equation, we have people reporting themselves to the state, and picking up all the costs. I won't bother going into all the advantages of a system like this, because you can probably imagine?

Let's just say - you talk on your phone, you email and message on your phone, you keep your phone on your person, you pay with your phone, you open doors with your phone, scan your metabolism with it, fingerprint yourself with it, and so many more wonderful and convenient time savers are coming your way - trust me.

One last problem though. Consent.

The government and the corporations still aren't really meant to be stealing our data and invading our privacy. Not without our permission anyway.

Now then, what would it take to get every phone user in the country to agree to their privacy being invaded and their data mined, while paying the bandwidth themselves? LOL.

There must be something that would allow that consent to be obtained? As a first step?

I know - maybe an app from GCHQ to save lives during a pandemic?

Anyway, you only need to look at China to figure out why you should be binning your phone as opposed to granting GCQH or even more foul entities such as Google access to it. And it's not even as if this coming app will the the other shoe. I doubt it. It'll be open source maybe? All above board? They have even said, the legislation will come later. But the important thing here is the precedent and the social conditioning. Once you allow them in to save your life (from that 0.1% killer), well what about the terror threat? Will you let them in to do your bit in the fight against terror? What about missing children? Will you let them in for an app that deals with that? And so on, there will always be a good reason to remain on the far banks of the Rubicon.

This has been done again and again and again, small steps, nobody sees the danger, and a thousand steps later Chinese people can't get on a bus because they posted something mean about Winnie the Pooh.

As you say though, our government is different and would never do that sort of shit. Even though they are relentlessly laying the ground for it as we speak.

[Niall_Quinn]

Addendum. We developed an app for clocking staff in and out on exam days. At the moment it's all paper timesheets, we developed an app so staff get a badge with a QR code and the app uses that to clock the staff in and out so we know the hours they worked and that feeds into the back office system to calculate payments.
I suggested we use GPS information to verify that the device being used was at the Venue it should be.
We already know which venue the supervisor - who runs the test day and does the clocking in and out - is assigned to work at so we know where they should be. We also know where the staff are assigned. So how about we use the app to check that the device is at the right Venue and that's where the clocking in and out happened. The idea was to cut down the potential for fraud so we know that the supervisor hasn't just stayed at home, clocked a load of his mates in and out and they're all getting paid for nothing.
The privacy lot lost their shit! "You can't track people!".
The idea wasn't to track anyone, I don't care if the dude was in the whorehouse the night before. All we care about is whether they and the staff really went to the Venue where they were assigned to do work.

Well, unfortunately those privacy laws still apply to some. And they are rigorously enforced. BIG FINES! Change your name to Facebook and then you can do what you want.

[GP]

I'm not saying you're a nutter.

Why not?

[Mac76]

a good example of how Johnson's ducked the shitthrowing by being ill at just the right time

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52453520

and just as I predicted they're now talking about how he'll be easing the lockdown now that he's back, maximising his man of the people national hero status

he's choreographed this perfectly - the only missing bit of the jigsaw is just how 'ill' he really was and how he managed to pull it off.

The best i can think of was that he tried to have a mild dose, but it was maybe a bit worse than hoped, though still not that bad to normally warrant hospitalisation

But then given he's the PM the medics decided to be ultra-cautious and put him in intensive care just to be on the safe side - or that Cummings really pressured the NHS to do it - after all, you wouldn't want to be the doctor accused of not taking all precautions to make sure the PM didn't die would you?

and of course afterwards the medics aren't going to spoil the story and risk tabloid wrath by admitting afterwards he wasn't that ill after all...

[Niall_Quinn]

Two medical professionals being interviewed by ABC News, detailing their own findings from their own clinics and expressing their opinions based on a combined 40 years in topic specific fields.

A violation of YouTube's terms of Service. You're not allowed to see it, because Google says so. Watch CNN instead.

This is why Google needs to be shut down, because it's a clear and present danger to free speech and freedom of expression in every nation it has infested.

Yeah, our governments and their tech overlord buddies would never behave like those Chinese commies, right? Well, mostly not. They're reluctantly being outright fascists at the moment because... Coronavirus. But once that's over, they'll go right back to being cuddly and nice.

Did I mention, The Second Wave (c2020) is coming? Which means an extended lock up if the state gets its way. Which means what these doctors have to say is more vital than before. But Google says no because why? Because these doctors and many other professionals disagree with the contradictory and insupportable bullshit coming out of officialdom during this crisis. Unlike the Chinese, we're not allowed to disappear or assassinate those who speak freely - not yet. But we can shut them up and, when the mob is energised enough, de-platform them and take away their careers and livelihoods.

Then again, it's hardly a surprise companies like Google are comfortable mimicking the methods of the communist regime in China. After all, they sold out to China a long time ago.

[Niall_Quinn]

Oh, the have actually managed to energise the mob. Here we go...

ACEP-AAEM Joint Statement on Physician Misinformation
The American College of Emergency Physicians (ACEP) and the American Academy of Emergency Medicine (AAEM) jointly and emphatically condemn the recent opinions released by Dr. Daniel Erickson and Dr. Artin Massihi. These reckless and untested musings do not speak for medical societies and are inconsistent with current science and epidemiology regarding COVID-19. As owners of local urgent care clinics, it appears these two individuals are releasing biased, non-peer reviewed data to advance their personal financial interests without regard for the public’s health.

COVID-19 misinformation is widespread and dangerous. Members of ACEP and AAEM are first-hand witnesses to the human toll that COVID-19 is taking on our communities. ACEP and AAEM strongly advise against using any statements of Drs. Erickson and Massihi as a basis for policy and decision making.

"To advance their personal financial interests?" Evidence? Is that slander or defamation? I can never get those two the right way around.

Fast though. It usually takes months or years for bureaucrats to coordinate anything. Maybe they had something prepared in advance?

But at least we now know that locking ourselves away from everyday viruses and bacteria and running intensive disinfection regimes is not a threat to our immune systems. We now know, this is "inconsistent with current science and epidemiology regarding COVID-19". There goes COVID19, the exception to decades, centuries of scientific rules. Strange virus this one. The way it can cause censorship in anything that contradicts the WHO storyline is a novel trait indeed.

And I suppose these doctor's own test data from their own labs is not "guided by the science" either? That's test data processed via external and independent labs?

And their summation, "high infection, low mortality", which is actually supported by all the currently available data, that's not approved science either?

By the way, has the official death porn that vomited onto our TV screens been "peer reviewed"?

Here's the book you need to revise to get up to speed with the new science. Read it. Obey. Don't ask questions.
https://www.who.int/emergencies/dise...ronavirus-2019

And if you come across any frivolous accusations about the WHO, such as Tedros appointing Robert Mugabe (yes - THAT Robert Mugabe) as a goodwill ambassador, bear in mind that whilst this is 100% factual - it is not approved!